Just get a survey

[Joe28532]

Survey? Just have some common sense. You don't need a surveyor to tell you that's not right. The only surveys I have ever got are when required by insurance. I've never been shown anything by a surveyor I hadn't already found on my own. Waste of money if you ask me, unless you have zero common sense. Every survey I have ever paid for had missed several pertinent items.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Joe28532

Survey? Just have some common sense. You don't need a surveyor to tell you that's not right. The only surveys I have ever got are when required by insurance. I've never been shown anything by a surveyor I hadn't already found on my own. Waste of money if you ask me, unless you have zero common sense. Every survey I have ever paid for had missed several pertinent items.

fully agree, if you have any experience of owning and using boats you'll know what to look for and can judge a boat in minutes . if you know nothing get a surveyor

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Joe28532

Survey? Just have some common sense. You don't need a surveyor to tell you that's not right. The only surveys I have ever got are when required by insurance. I've never been shown anything by a surveyor I hadn't already found on my own. Waste of money if you ask me, unless you have zero common sense. Every survey I have ever paid for had missed several pertinent items.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

fully agree, if you have any experience of owning and using boats you'll know what to look for and can judge a boat in minutes . if you know nothing get a surveyor

I'll 3rd that. Especially buying a fixer. There are 2 kinds of fixers...1) Poor design and manufacturing have cause catastrophic failure. Most manufacturers are well known for their problems. 2) Interior and exterior in poor condition due to lack of maintenance. Eg. ...leaky portlights and hatches. Engine will not run do to growth in the fuel tank. Dated rigging.
You can fix example 2. Example 1 should be steered clear of.
I have had a few surveys done. It seemed they spent at least half of their time going over safety equipment and dates on flares. A total waste of time since any half knowledgeable boater can do. That said...if you're going down the road of a self survey, take a friend who is not emotionally attached to the boat. Take lots of pictures (over 50) to study later, blowing up the details. Most of all...survey the bottom after the in water survey. A haul-out in the slings only to check rudder and prop cutlass and bearings for slop and the bottom for defects.

Talk to people on the dock to see if there is any information you should know.

[boatpoker]

Over the last two years here in Ontario, the boat market is so overheated that boats are being sold to new boaters with no conditions. Many have lost a couple of boats while they haggled for survey time when someone else put cash on the table without conditions.

We've seen boats that we valued at $15k 15yrs ago recently sell for $40k.

I can;t tell you how many requests we've gotten for surveys after the purchase was complete. All of last two summers we turned away 6-10 surveys per day.

We've turned away 7 surveys in the last week because we refuse to survey frozen boats.

By early summer this year we stopped doing surveys for those who'd already bought the boat ... we were tired of crushing dreams.

The same thing is happening in our housing market, no home inspections or even conditional on mtge approvals.

If you know an inexperienced boater about to purchase a boat. Please encourage them to read this first ...
Marine Survey 101, Pre-Survey Inspection

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

If you know an inexperienced boater about to purchase a boat. Please encourage them to read this first ...
Marine Survey 101, Pre-Survey Inspection

I second that link. I have it bookmarked in my favorites. There are a couple of Youtubes as well.

[Fore and Aft]

Thanks Lisa and Chris for the kind words, you certainly took on one heck of a project. Its been great watching your project and I am looking forward to that promised sail.
LittleWing during my maritime career I have had lots of help and love paying it forward when I am in a position to help.
Boatpoker 100% about crushing dreams, its almost embarrassing to present an owner a survey that virtually condemns the boat.
Celestial Sailor, Joe 2853 and goboatingnow sometimes the best thing a surveyor can bring is disinterest. I have done surveys with very experienced boatbuilders who have a bad case of the love bug and need a stern talking too before they make the purchase.
Cheers

[Jim Cate]

I have done surveys with very experienced boatbuilders who have a bad case of the love bug and need a stern talking too before they make the purchase.

Ya know, once away from absolute novice owners, this may be the most useful service a surveyor offers a prospective buyer! Sorta like a chaperone on a teen-ager date... squelching the lust enough to allow reality to step in. So often by the time a punter hires a surveyor he has fully convinced himself that "this is the one" and will willfully ignore blatant flaws ( I know... been there and done that!).

A comment on a different aspect: as a surveyor, would you be willing to take on a job where the customer says "don't spend time noting serial numbers, counting flares or doing other tasks that I can do myself? Spend your time on the serious stuff". I've had survey reports that were little other than stuff copied out of sailboat data and lists of s/ns of every damn thing on board, plus general statements that stuff looked serviceable but was not inspected in detail.

I doubt if I will ever buy another surveyable boat, but should that happen, the above is how I'd like to structure a survey... so I'm curious!

Jim

[Fore and Aft]

Jim I have done a number of surveys where the buyer has just asked me to tell them why they shouldn't buy the boat. Keeps it simple and often just having a reality check is all that is needed.
I have often thought I could get into pre-marriage counseling if I get sick of surveying!
Cheers

[mvweebles]

I find it interesting that experienced folks would eschew even obtaining advice from an unbiased evaluation. Tiger Woods, Muhammed Ali, and many other top individual performers are widely recognized as the best in their fields, yet all have coaches and trainers - many with lackluster direct experience - who critique and tweak their performance.

I know of a guy who is on his fourth yacht build, all of which are in the $2m-$4m range by top builders with many years of experience. He himself is extremely knowledgable. Yet he flies a surveyor to SE Asia every few months to inspect the build progress. I know another guy - 80 years old - who has owned a well respected small yacht boatyard for 35 years, and a commercial shipyard where about half their business is super yachts. Yet when he purchased a 62-foot trawler yacht for himself, he hired a surveyor and has had the surveyor return periodically to inspect and consult on work his own yards have done. On hiring the surveyor, his comment was "best money I ever spent!"

The old saying "a lawyer who represents themself has a fool for a client" comes to mind.

I cannot imagine spending a day with a surveyor - even a mediocre one and not walking away having learned a bunch.

Peter

[double u]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I find it interesting that experienced folks would eschew even obtaining advice from an unbiased evaluation. Tiger Woods, Muhammed Ali, and many other top individual performers are widely recognized as the best in their fields, yet all have coaches and trainers - many with lackluster direct experience - who critique and tweak their performance.

I know of a guy who is on his fourth yacht build, all of which are in the $2m-$4m range by top builders with many years of experience. He himself is extremely knowledgable. Yet he flies a surveyor to SE Asia every few months to inspect the build progress. I know another guy - 80 years old - who has owned a well respected small yacht boatyard for 35 years, and a commercial shipyard where about half their business is super yachts. Yet when he purchased a 62-foot trawler yacht for himself, he hired a surveyor and has had the surveyor return periodically to inspect and consult on work his own yards have done. On hiring the surveyor, his comment was "best money I ever spent!"

The old saying "a lawyer who represents themself has a fool for a client" comes to mind.

I cannot imagine spending a day with a surveyor - even a mediocre one and not walking away having learned a bunch.

Peter

absolutely agree!
"A prospective buyer surveying (particularly his/her first!) boat himself has a fool for a surveyor!"
Even the most experienced of us are not "emotion-free" when it comes to boats...

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

little other than stuff copied out of sailboat data and lists of s/ns of every damn thing on board, plus general statements that stuff looked serviceable but was not inspected in detail.

If its not permanently affixed to the boat I don't inspect it, that includes flares, life jackets and the porno DVD collection .... One boat I surveyed had over 3,000 of them.

Sample Survey Reports

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I have often thought I could get into pre-marriage counseling if I get sick of surveying!
Cheers

Haven't you heard? ... love is blind!

[Narfi]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Haven't you heard? ... love is blind!

According to mythology, the guy selling the DVD collection may be as well......

[Fore and Aft]

Chris and Lisa finally got the mast stepped and Joy is starting to look like a complete yacht again. They managed to salvage the boom but the mast was to rotten. I found them a good mast on Facebook Marketplace and with the new stays it looks like it was meant to be there.
Now it is just the toe rails, sails, deck hardware and Joy will be ready to sail again.

Cheers

[NevilleCat]

Looks sweet!