Large solar array support beams

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Seems quite normal for the large panels and caught me out when we moved from 150w to 300w as I didn't realise the frame edge is a box so less area to apply bolts on the inside. I ended up having to file dozens of stainless steel penny sized washers taking the edge off them.

Suddenly there is a dearth of bi-facial panels in the UK unless you go to 550w or so. I get the market isn't big because they would be a fat lot of use on a roof, but still all gone?

Pete

Old size 72cell/144half cell panels standard size. Assume stock sold well and only new standard 550 till 700W are ordered due to shortage in logistics capacity in UK

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

@sailingharry: If i would be you i would unpack and test them for some time exactly the way you install them bevor you do the huge effort addapting the ss arch, re-enforcing and then later wake up (hope not) that they deliver much less.


Cheap noname often state and spec the combined power.

Oh, you missed my note (or I wasn't clear). They are the only ones at 400W that met my dimension requirement. That was a width and length. Many 400+ were too long, but narrow. Or too wide, but short. The W/M^2, a key metric, is right in line. It wasn't the "size," as in surface area, that was a problem, but rather getting one that fit my constraints in both width and length.


I can't really test them now -- it's winter, and even trying to set them up in a way to get decent output metrics would be a challenge (I don't own the controllers yet (still trying to decide if I'm going with 2@50A, or one at 70A), the only batteries I have are firmly mounted in the boat, I don't have good power measuring tools (Ah counter, etc) that aren't part of the boat, etc)



If they produce less... well, they produce less. I literally downloaded and opened spec sheets for dozens of panels (why do vendors not show the dimensions on the front page??!!). Price wasn't even a factor. If these don't do well, they are still the best I can put on the arch. Second best was 600w total (3 @200W each), lower Vmp, and they weren't bifacial.



These are RATED 400W -- they then list output with assumed bifacial getting over 400W.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Ok thats serious solar power on a mono :-)
Did you test the renogy panels? Will Prowse was not so happy with them...not the exact same model you have. Undertaking the huge effort you do top 5 makers or LGs top model whould have been just good enough for me to use...why renogy known for being acceptable budget with average reliability. Using their 60A DC2DC (and only this model as you can reduce it to 30A and supercheap compared to Victron) but only this and bought over amazon knowing about their shitty customer service...i posted about renogy being good and cheap for what they deliver as having good experience with this 60A DC2DC here and got a shitstorm back how bad they are in general and quality.

Also to sailingharry i believe the ratings of Longli, sunpower, LG and other top 10 makers as they are always within whats speced mostly overdelivering like LGs.
If a smaller panel gives you a bigger rating its 99,9% purposly overspeced. So when eg you sailingharry said its the only above 400W in that measurement, then its 99,9% overspeced and won't deliver the 400W.
@sailingharry: If i would be you i would unpack and test them for some time exactly the way you install them bevor you do the huge effort addapting the ss arch, re-enforcing and then later wake up (hope not) that they deliver much less. Also the difference between cheap and top 10 is lowlight and the angle when they start producing. Means under perfect conditions (which are seldom there) they deliver equal to top 10 but in not ideal they deliver almost nothing while eg an LG or Longli deliver 60% of its rating and start much earlier. Additionally top one have more diodes and busbars means are much less affected if a part of the solar panel gets shaded.
Also all the top 10 with bifacials only the frontside is rated eg my Longli are HIMo4 365 means 365W rated but in real life they deliver up to 450W as the add on come from 20% backside which eg Longli state in a different table on the spec sheet. Cheap noname often state and spec the combined power.

You may have missed that you can’t buy LG anymore. The Renogy 450W and 550W bifacial panels are new and I didn’t find any reviews. They do have a 25 year performance warranty though and they aren’t cheap so I think it’ll be good.

The negative stories I heard are all about flexible panels and the 100W range of old tech obsolete panels.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

@sailingharry: Just read/checked your panels.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C5R7R4C9 --

My longli HIMo4 365 are 173cm by 103cm, your 10BB 182x182cm so even 10cm less length and 70cm smaller but Longli HIMo4 365 speced 365W delivering regularly 450W on very good days, average on anchor between 10 and 5o'clock is over last 5 month is 330W of 365W rated =90% of its rating due to my victron MPPT and CerboGX.

One more follow up.
Your Longli are 198W/M^2. My panels (they aren't 182x182 -- that's the cell size) are 68" (172cm) x 45" (114cm), or 203W/M^2. (I consider those two numbers to be close enough to equal). I'm pretty confident that they will produce about as expected.
The Longli aren't apparently available in the US. That was another challenge. Every time I found a panel that was "close," it was unavailable in the US, or it was obsolete (and the residential market is driving them ever-larger, and less suitable). And those that were available were sold by the pallet minimum.
But, I've got them. At this point, if they produce 300W, it's still 50% more than my old installation -- and they fit.
BTW, those Longli would have been perfect. My panel total is easily 5" (12cm) wider than I'd like, and I'd have gladly given up 70W total capacity to have a slightly better fit on the arch.

[Lee Jerry]

Looking good, Jedi. That appears to be some quality workmanship.

Maybe I'll post a pic (after I take one) tomorrow of my supports, which are ready to be mounted. (Require some fitting and drilling.)

[s/v Jedi]

Some of the mounting pads and dog bones/cookies installed. Ready to haul them to the boat!

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You may have missed that you can’t buy LG anymore. The Renogy 450W and 550W bifacial panels are new and I didn’t find any reviews. They do have a 25 year performance warranty though and they aren’t cheap so I think it’ll be good.

The negative stories I heard are all about flexible panels and the 100W range of old tech obsolete panels.

You may be interested in the Panasonic panels. The seemed well reviewed. I purchased 5 of these:

Panasonic EverVolt HJT 410w module with 132cells

[wefleenor]

Jedi,

Your work on the parts looks impeccable, but I can't help but wonder why you didn't just use aluminum box tubes and angles which you could likely buy for less and no labor.

PS - following closely since I am designing similar system for myself. Thanks

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by wefleenor

Jedi,

Your work on the parts looks impeccable, but I can't help but wonder why you didn't just use aluminum box tubes and angles which you could likely buy for less and no labor.

PS - following closely since I am designing similar system for myself. Thanks

My previous array used an aluminum frame and was ripped apart by a hurricane. So this time stronger, and that allowed a cassette setup with sliding panels, so why not.

I looked at aluminum as an alternative to the carbon fiber beams but it would have been crazy big and heavy. Carbon fiber is far superior for these applications.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

You may be interested in the Panasonic panels. The seemed well reviewed. I purchased 5 of these:

Panasonic EverVolt HJT 410w module with 132cells

Actually, not really. Their features and warranties are all covered by the Renogy panels as well, but the Renogy panels have much more capacity, namely 450W and 550W plus they are bifacial which can add another 30% on top of that.

Maybe Panasonic has bifacial panels too, but when I was buying, I didn’t have a better choice of what was available. Actually, these Renogy panels weren’t available either, I pre-ordered them and waited.

[s/v Jedi]

Test fitting. Without the strut it looks wild but with strut much better.

The beams are longer than the panels: at the pivot point without strut we have 20” at the inboard end and 55” outboard. The stainless part of the strut is about 26” but the mounting pad under the beam adds a lot more as you can see well on the second picture

[Lee Jerry]

...why you didn't just use aluminum box tubes...which you could likely buy for less and no labor.

That's is what we did. Here they are (in the packaging after it rained):

(Why does the CF software rotate the photo?)

Not too concerned about strength. They are rather heavy; or course lighter would have been nicer, but going with these for now. Adding a ton of weight in total to the stern, so maybe make some lighter ones in the future if it's all too much.


Jedi - do you know how much yours weigh?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

That's is what we did. Here they are (in the packaging after it rained):

Attachment 283770

(Why does the CF software rotate the photo?)

Not too concerned about strength. They are rather heavy; or course lighter would have been nicer, but going with these for now. Adding a ton of weight in total to the stern, so maybe make some lighter ones in the future if it's all too much.

Jedi - do you know how much yours weigh?

I weighed them before painting but think I sanded off more epoxy than paint went on so it’s still about the same at 8kg each.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Test fitting. Without the strut it looks wild but with strut much better.

The beams are longer than the panels: at the pivot point without strut we have 20” at the inboard end and 55” outboard. The stainless part of the strut is about 26” but the mounting pad under the beam adds a lot more as you can see well on the second picture

Looks awesome.
Did you check if the holding points of the arch are up to the task? That angle from the end of the pannels till where the arch is mounted to deck are huge and the dingy hangs there too.
With crane factor of 6 additional i just think about the case when strong rain or alike fills dingy with water and then some stamping in the waves additionallywind forces, that puts huge forces and loads of >10t on the holding points.

[Lee Jerry]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

Not too concerned about strength. They are rather heavy; or of course lighter would have been nicer, but going with these for now. Adding a ton of weight in total to the stern, so maybe make some lighter ones in the future if it's all too much.


Jedi - do you know how much yours weigh?

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I weighed them before painting but think I sanded off more epoxy than paint went on so it’s still about the same at 8kg each.

Yeah, these total about 32-34 kg. For two 450W panels.

Part of the issue is that the panels will not be centered, but offset "several" inches to make room for the Hydrovane. This means extra transverse structure is needed to cantilever the one panel past the turn of the arch.