Look what I bought for a pittance today!

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by GILow

Well, I'm still confused why you'd call it "communist China". After all, you didn't talk about the batteries produced in "Capitalist America".

I don't feel the need to talk about the boating rules in "mildly socialist, predominantly Capitalist with undertones of Facist Australia".

Seriously, it's just China. End of story.

Again, it was not a political statement. It was used to differentiate if from the other China, aka the Republic of China.

[MicHughV]

I've been to these places that re-certify life rafts...it's quite a process..the life raft is taken out, inflated (by hand) and left on the floor for a number of days, while it undergoes an inspection. It gets re-packed with up-to-date flares, new air supply, some water sachet's and a few other odds and ends. Very little stuff. Getting it back into the life raft casket is also quite a process...it's done by machine as no human could exert enough pressure to compress the life raft small enough to fit.

That's the life raft. There is little room in there for much of anything, other than what I just described. These life rafts are small. sitting, inflated, on a floor you can get a really good appreciation for how small. A 4 man life raft has enough space for 4 very cramped human beings. The better one's have double tubes, and inflated floor, etc....the kind of stuff, you will REALLY appreciate if you find yourself in one. 4 people in this little life raft are going to be downright miserable. A 6 man is so much better.....just like a EPIRB that is working !

A wise seaman also prepares a " ditch bag"....this is a bag filled with your EPIRB, more water, a water maker, medicine, a handheld vhf, your old flares, plus some new one's, and a host of other things you think you might need. It needs to be completely waterproof and float and needs a long strong line that can attach to you (or someone) as you jump overboard.

You may have to board this life raft at night...in a storm..with little time to think or do anything. This is really your LAST...and ONLY chance at survival !!! Maybe this bears repeating...This is really your LAST and ONLY chance at survival. And you may end up spending a long time in there.

Why on earth would you want to have anything but the very best, strongest, most reliable form of life raft and support equipment you can find ???
You may never need any of this stuff....and that would be great.....but being properly prepared is plain good seamanship.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...These life rafts are small. sitting, inflated, on a floor you can get a really good appreciation for how small. A 4 man life raft has enough space for 4 very cramped human beings. The better one's have double tubes, and inflated floor, etc....the kind of stuff, you will REALLY appreciate if you find yourself in one. 4 people in this little life raft are going to be downright miserable. A 6 man is so much better.....just like a EPIRB that is working !

Regarding the whole size thing....

When I started looking I was determined to get the biggest life raft i could afford.

Strangely, it was the vendors that put me on the right track. (And a few CF members) They pointed out that a big life raft is a real problem if it is not fully loaded.

They can easily be overturned by the wind plus you can get freezing cold. It's not about comfort it's about survival.

Ideally, I'd have a one or two person raft, as a solo sailor. But I could not find one of a known quantity with a roof at that size so I was forced down the four-man path. I will have to take care to fill the ballast pockets of mine ASAP should I ever use it, so at least I have a chance of staying the right way up.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by GILow

Regarding the whole size thing....

When I started looking I was determined to get the biggest life raft i could afford.

Strangely, it was the vendors that put me on the right track. (And a few CF members) They pointed out that a big life raft is a real problem if it is not fully loaded.

They can easily be overturned by the wind plus you can get freezing cold. It's not about comfort it's about survival.

Ideally, I'd have a one or two person raft, as a solo sailor. But I could not find one of a known quantity with a roof at that size so I was forced down the four-man path. I will have to take care to fill the ballast pockets of mine ASAP should I ever use it, so at least I have a chance of staying the right way up.

I think you'll find the ballast pockets automatically fill up as the life raft inflates.

Regarding the out of date flares: I have a gap under the fuel tanks where I can put them (The water police will never find them there)

[Mr B]

I only produce the flares and safety gear that are in date, Required and Compulsory,

Any thing out of date just dosent see the light of day, Till its needed,

[GILow]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Regarding the out of date flares: I have a gap under the fuel tanks where I can put them

Yep, nothing can go wrong with that.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I only produce the flares and safety gear that are in date, Required and Compulsory,

Any thing out of date just dosent see the light of day, Till its needed,

I think it is a bit like BigPharma who advise to chuck out drugs/medicines beyond the expiry date

"It's true the effectiveness of a drug may decrease over time, but much of the original potency still remains even a decade after the expiration date. Excluding nitroglycerin, insulin, and liquid antibiotics, most medications are as long-lasting as the ones tested by the military."

https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...-mean-anything.


"1. Flares never really expire:
Federal regulations require that all pyrotechnic devices must be labeled and marked. One stipulation involves the expiration date. Specifically, it states, “The expiration date must be not more than 42 months from the date of manufacture.” This rule exists to make it harder for you to have bad flares aboard — not because they can’t last more than 42 months, but because the Coast Guard knows many boaters can’t be trusted to inspect them regularly. They can go bad, they can rust or be damaged, but they don’t really expire. (Highway flares — made of the same stuff as signal flares — have no expir.........

https://www.soundingsonline.com/voices/flares

[Mr B]

Good money spinner, Use by date, Considering the cost of Flares,

[GILow]

Originally Posted by coopec43

https://www.soundingsonline.com/voices/flares

Not sure who the heck that guy is or what authority he can claim. But in the one page he claims flares never expire then goes on to warn about how they need to be stored super carefully or they won’t work.

Yeah... right.

Sorry, I think I’ll skip the tin-foil-hat-thinking and go with the experts on this one.

[dafid]

Originally Posted by GILow

Not sure who the heck that guy is or what authority he can claim. But in the one page he claims flares never expire then goes on to warn about how they need to be stored super carefully or they won’t work.

Yeah... right.

Sorry, I think I’ll skip the tin-foil-hat-thinking and go with the experts on this one.

RTFA - Read The Fine Article - He is/was a USCG rescue swimmer? A lot of relevant experience there.

And the advice is clear and useful
- keep your flares dry, protect them from knocks; preferably in a box with desiccant.
- don't dispose of them at an arbitrary expiration-by date.

And then there is the really interesting one - practise using them, using the out-of-date flares as long as they are the same type as you will depend on later - with advice for how to do that within the (US) regulations.

Then there is the practical advice about how to use the flares
- at night the some day-time flares can work really well as rescue choppers use IR-cameras.
- the flares can drop hot liquid stuff - hold down wind and over water not the life raft.
- a flare that has gone out is still really hot and visible to the IR-camera so keep waving it.


I am bookmarking that page for review later.

[MicHughV]

the gist of the matter is to be prepared...4 man...6 man....is not really the issue...old ...new....etc......there are many makes and models of life rafts to chose from....all have their strong points...price....double tubes...etc...but none will work if not properly serviced and maintained.
No-one is saying throw out old flares...by all means keep them....but also have new up-to-date one's.
Having your EPIRP properly serviced and battery replaced falls into the "being prepared' dictum.
These days a variety of EPIRB's, cell phones, sat phones, and other electronic gear are all available. Wonderful stuff...if they work....and they won't work without a charged battery...

I've had an opportunity to walk among inflated life rafts on a floor in a shop...got a good eyeful of these in inflated mode...I shudder to think of ever being in one....any one...

Let me point y'all towards a "must read" book...

It's called " Survivor" written by Michael Greenwald. It's an excellent, well written, and easy to follow and understand.

It details a number of sinkings and liferaft adventures. First hand account and a whole list of suggestions.

It will give you, the reader, a good perspective, of what is in store for you, should you find yourself is such a dire predicament.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by dafid

RTFA - Read The Fine Article - He is/was a USCG rescue swimmer? A lot of relevant experience there.

Yes, I could see that he was a rescue swimmer, and good on him.

Lots of experience, sure. Of jumping into the water.

Knowledge of flare chemistry...? Not so sure.

People often mistake experience for knowledge.

As stated, I’ll go with the manufacturers.

[MicHughV]

I got to take my hat off to the rescue services....these folks go out in weather that no reasonable and sane person would....all to save your butt. They are literally putting their butt on the line to get you out of a jam.

[coopec43]

I am having second thoughts about the 20 year old raft. Apparently these rafts have a long shelf life: Plastimo rafts are now sold with a 18 year warranty. (Another brand is being sold with a 20 year warranty) Someone on this(?) thread said his life raft is 30 years old.

If the experts servicing life rafts have had a look at mine and tell me it is in "good condition" who am I to argue? If there was the slightest element of doubt I'm sure they would not encourage me to have it serviced.

I'll be picking up the life raft from their servicing facility in the next few days and there are two facts I want answered when I talk to them.

• is the raft suitable for open water (I'm sure it is)
• can it be serviced to >24hr standard.

Also I'll get her to expand on her statement "Most people take a "grab bag" with them. I think she may have meant with extra food and water?

When it comes to safety I will not skimp. But I think my previous decision to "retire" the life raft was based on emotional rather than rational reasons.

[GILow]

Plenty of threads here on what to take in your grab bag.

Depends on your personality type, but I’d say the very fact that you are uncertain about this raft tells you it is not worth servicing.

The whole point is to have a trusted fallback plan if things go to pot out there.

My personality dictated that I toss mine and buy a new one.