Looking for Advice on Repower

[Rocketman]

I have a 40 ft beneteau with a Perkins m50 engine, it runs well but is burning some oil, about a quart every 75 hours, the heat exchanger needs replaced, $1200.00, the injector pump is leaking a little, $1200.00 to rebuild, and every thing else is questionable, the parts for this engine are very hard to find and expensive. The engine hours are questionable but I believe somewhere in the 7000 hour range. I would like some advice on which engine would be a good replacement for my boat, I know Yanmar has one that is 54 hp, and runs about 10,000.00 with engine, trans, wiring harnas, and panel. Does this sound like a good deal, or are there better options for less money.

[Jon Neely]

I love my betamarine that we repowered with, compare and you will see how they excel.

[Rocketman]

Thanks for that advise, I just checked out there web site, do you know if they will help with installation advise?

[Charlie]

I have heard nothing but good about beta. In fact there is a member here -- whose name I can't remember -- who is the beta rep for the east coast.

[Astrid]

I think a new Beta Marine 28, which should be adequate for you boat, would cost about $8,800. Although I haven't one myself, I have heard good things about them. They are, I believe, marinized Kubota industrial engines from Japan and have shown very good reliability in service.

[Target9000]

Hey Rocketman, we spoke briefly on the phone. I mentioned that we had repowered with a Beta38. You can see how much it cost us here:
http://svsundowner.files.wordpress.c...ing-110926.pdf
The cost for just the engine alone shipped to us us with an upgraded panel was almost exactly 10k even.

Some of that might be somewhat confusing, just look for stuff in the "engine room" category.

You'll probably pay almost the same amount between a yanny and a beta initially. Look at the price sheets for spares on the motors though. Also calling the distributor in NC for Beta is easy and they give you up front and great advice. I got sales double speak out of the Yanmar people.

Both engines are high quality and both will last I expect.

[Boracay]

I went with a bigger engine (John Deere 4045) when repowering Boracay and have no regrets. It is a big heavy engine though, and may be too big for your boat.

I had a look at the Betamarine website and they look to have a Beta50 which could be similar to your Perkins. There is an interesting article on the site on repowering.

My experience suggests that repowering with a similar engine/gearbox may save problems with shaft size, and may also save on a new prop.

I went with a new transmission with Boracay's new engine as parts for the existing gearbox were no longer available. I don't recall any adverse reports on the Twin Disk, though cruising yachts seem to benefit from using larger rated gearboxes than recommended..

[roverhi]

Before I'd throw 10 grand or more in a new engine, I'd look seriously at what, if anything, is wrong with the current engine. A quart every 75 hours is equivalent to a quart every 4500 miles or so in a car. For some engines that's a drop in the bucket. If that is an out of range consumption for your engine might want to find out what's causing it. If it's valve guides, you are looking at a boat unit or so for a valve job, less if you do the R&R yourself. Rebuilding your current engine could be way less than installing a new engine when you figure in the work of reconfiguring your installation for the new engine.

I'd be sure my current engine is nearing the end of it's life before I went looking for a new engine.

[Rocketman]

Thanks to Target9000 for such a detailed breakdown of expences, I know that there are going to be a lot of extra expences if I change to a different engine, and I have thought about trying to keep my engine going. To keep putting more money into expencive parts on an obsolete engine seems like throwing good money after bad, and I do not want to worry everytime I go out, if the engine is going to make it back. Are there any thought about putting the perkins 108 in as a replacement? I see that you can buy them reasonable and the parts are also reasonable. The engine has been around a long time and seems to have a good reputation. I know the engine is older than mine. I am not sure if I will have the same problems with hookup with the perkins 108 but I am thinking that this may be a simpler conversion then some thing else.

[S/V Antares]

I also think you should look hard at the Beta. The 38 is a bit small. only 1.5 liter. The 43 is just under 2 liter. The 50 Hp is 2.2. Call them before you make a choice. They are the most helpful folks I have ever worked with.

I priced Yanmar and The beta with many upgrades save me a few thousand.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Before I'd throw 10 grand or more in a new engine, I'd look seriously at what, if anything, is wrong with the current engine. A quart every 75 hours is equivalent to a quart every 4500 miles or so in a car. For some engines that's a drop in the bucket. If that is an out of range consumption for your engine might want to find out what's causing it. If it's valve guides, you are looking at a boat unit or so for a valve job, less if you do the R&R yourself. Rebuilding your current engine could be way less than installing a new engine when you figure in the work of reconfiguring your installation for the new engine.

I'd be sure my current engine is nearing the end of it's life before I went looking for a new engine.

+1

I agree entirely. Do you still have good oil pressure? Have you done a leakdown test? If you have good oil pressure and no bearing noise, then the lower end if probably ok. If you have good compression, then your bores and rings are ok. I would never replace an engine that has good lower end, and especially, which has good bores and rings. Even if you have some loss of compression, I would hone and re-ring if that can be done without pulling the engine (and maybe even if I had to pull the engine).

But if you've got a good lower end and good compression, I would simply rebuild the cylinder head -- grind the valves, replace valve guides. And rebuild the fuel system and replace the heat exchanger, water pump, and exhaust elbow. And go another 7000 hours. Those Perkins engines are tough, bulletproof, dead simple. They are really good engines. No need for a general overhaul if the bearings are good.

[Dockhead]

P.S. A quart in 75 hours is no big deal -- in my opinion.

And I forgot to mention maybe the most important thing -- does the engine start well in cold weather? This is a really good indication of basic health for a diesel (unlike a gasoline engine). If the engine starts well, has good oil pressure, doesn't make any bearing noises then I would happily put up with some oil burning. Might not even bother with a compression test.

[Tia Bu]

Another vote for fixing the old engine, here. I had similar problems on an old Volvo MD7A. My first reaction was to look at all kinds of repowering options before sinking more money into the old Volvo. But a couple of friends at the marina who had recently repowered their boats told me they would NEVER replace a diesel engine that is running.

So I dug in and did most of the work myself (except for rebuilding the injection pump). I ended up with less than $600 in all the repairs, an engine that runs great, and much more confidence that I can fix any problems that come up.

By the way, last summer, up in New England, a thousand miles from home, the engine pooped out on me. I couldn't get the thing restarted. I went so far as calling TowBoat US and arranging a tow. They were an hour and half away. A nearby fisherman offered a tow, so I took him up on it and cancelled with Towboat US. Then, as he was slowly towing me into Gloucester Harbor, I realized the wind was blowing in a favorable direction-- and I HAD SAILS!

Remember, if the thing craps out entirely, you have the ultimate backup power...

By the way, since I had spent so much time working on my engine myself, I didn't call a mechanic once we got into Gloucester. My buddy and I dug in, found the problem (a clogged fuel tank pickup) and fixed it ourselves. Total cost of repair: $0.

[Rocketman]

Thanks Dockhead for your advise, I think I need more information about my engine before I scrap it. The engine runs great, it starts easily, but I have no way to test whether or not it starts in cold conditions as it has not been started while I have had it, in weather below 65 degrees in south Fl. It does have some blue smoke after startup, and if I rev it up to 3000 RPMs after warmup it will kill mosquettos, but stop after a minute or so. Then after that it does not seem to smoke at all. I am not sure if you are familar with the M50 engine, the parts are almost imposible to find. I have not been able to get a workshop manual for the thing. I ordered one from the supplier that I use and they have told me they can't get it. If someone out there has one I will glady pay for it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

Thanks to Target9000 for such a detailed breakdown of expences, I know that there are going to be a lot of extra expences if I change to a different engine, and I have thought about trying to keep my engine going. To keep putting more money into expencive parts on an obsolete engine seems like throwing good money after bad, and I do not want to worry everytime I go out, if the engine is going to make it back. Are there any thought about putting the perkins 108 in as a replacement? I see that you can buy them reasonable and the parts are also reasonable. The engine has been around a long time and seems to have a good reputation. I know the engine is older than mine. I am not sure if I will have the same problems with hookup with the perkins 108 but I am thinking that this may be a simpler conversion then some thing else.

I had a 108 in my last boat. It is now 30 years old with probably 20 000 hours and still runs perfectly with never even the cylinder head off. Leaks oil like crazy, is the only fault.

But I would never replace an M50 with an old 108 - why?!! The M50 is an excellent engine -- made by Mitsubishi, IIRC. Direct injection. More efficient, smoother, and should be at least as reliable and long-lasting as the 108. And a whole generation newer. It's a royal pain in the a** to repower with a different engine -- different mounts, different connections, shaft alignment, etc., etc. If you really have a good reason to repower -- as someone said, if you are really sure that the engine is at the end of its useful life -- then go with the latest and best -- Beta, Nanni, or Yanmar. Brand new, so that you start over again from 0 with the useful life. To repower with another old engine, an even much older engine, would be just silly, IMHO.