Loose Shrouds

[jmczzz]

No I was in a bad space saying that off the top of my head. She gonna sail again and I'm gonna sail her. Just one step at a time, slow and steady. James

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by jmczzz

rognvald,
Thank you, for the positive spin. So far every comment has been how the mast, deck, compression post or shrouds are all bad and I.m suicidal for trying to make it to the Gulf.
I've been looking at inflatable dingys, kayaks and such so I will not have to swim for it if the mast falls. Cause I just don't have an option but to try and patch it up and get her home.
thanks, James

It's not that big of a deal when the mast falls. It seems fast at first then slows down after the wind gets out of the sail.

Mine fell on another boat. I figured it might happen since a few of the wires had parted.

Actually, I believe my 14 year old son was at the helm when the mast fell. I was on the sister ship

Also, I have one stay, the backstay, that has bottomed out but is at 440 on the loos gauge and has been that way for 4 years in pretty strong winds.

You have fewer stays than I do so you may not want to run a lot of sail until you gain confidence in your boat and rigging. I carried along my kayak until I did. (and still do. It's my dinghy)

Here is a sail I took early on to see if things would hold up...... in protected waters. I hadn't yet replaced my lifeline with "rope."

Winds maybe 19-22 knots. I didn't tighten things up too much this first time as in the sails and mainsheet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRccc0PBkkI

[jmczzz]

I've got one more option to check out. Sam the yard foreman at the Dutch marina seems like a straight shooter. We had a good telephone chat the other day and I might get her in there to get his help checking her out.
Dutch Wharf Boat Yard & Marina Branford, CT 06405 Dutch Wharf Boat Yard & Marina | Marina Branford CT | Boat Refinishing CT | Home
Plan is to pull in there as soon as the ice melts and the winter storage runs out.
James

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by jmczzz

The only question I have now is can I safely motor the boat down the ICW to my home area, to a yard near New Orleans or should I go ahead and pay a premium price and do it in CT?.
thanks for all the input.

Motor down the ICW. There's no sailing, no stress on the rigging.

Where is CT? Connecticut? You can get to New Orleans basically a by ICW? Then do that.
There are places on the way that would be more affordable than others... maybe Ft Lauderdale etc. You would find out as you go down and chat to people.

Also, you might pay for an inspection by a rigger (tell him that no matter his report you ate not going to have him do the re-rigging. This will keep the BS factor down). A rigger will tell u the problems in about 5 minutes and then u work out how you are going to fix it.

On a 1980 boat you could justify doing the work yourself (I don't. I pay for a pro to do it but I cross oceans ).

Even if the problem is somthing weird like compression posts etc motoring and light sailing will be fine.

[UNCIVILIZED]

rognvald, there are some things in your post which don't quite make sense to me, & I was hoping that you might clarify them. Or perhaps redact them, such that newbies to rigging, don't get any goofy/unsafe ides on how to do things.
Specifically:

Originally Posted by rognvald

JM,
If you know the boat has no structural issues that will effect tensioning, reuse your "stretched" wire with Norsemen or Stalok fittings. They have many options with longer/shorter studs to accommodate your particular needs. They are easy to install and bulletproof. Also, wire is very easy to inspect and many sailors(without good reason) replace their standing rigging when it is perfectly usable. This is, especially, not necessary if the boat is primarily a daysailer and will not be used offshore. If your mast is down, pull and label each wire and carefully inspect the swages and wire for rust, broken strands, etc. If it looks o.k., spray the length of the wire with WD40 or PB Blaster and let it soak into the strands. Then carefully wipe the wire with a lint free rag. Measure your new fittings and install.

Firstly, I'm assuming that you're suggesting that he use WD-40 or PB Blaster on his shroud wire as a corrosion preventative. Yes? However, there are far superior products available to use for such purposes in the marine environment. Such as Boseshield T9 for example.

As from what I know of PB Blaster, it's designed to be a penetrating oil, used to free stuck fasteners. And as such, it isn't, by design, primarily a corrosion inhibitor. So why are you recommending it in this instance?

On WD-40, I can't say that I've used it in several decades; given that it's touted to be "good for everything". But one cannot in truth say, specifiically, what it's really good for. And in practice, there are plenty of other, job specific products, which perform far better at each task which WD-40 is "supposed to" be for.

Also, & this is KEY:
Why would you have him coat his rigging wire with a lubricant, prior to installing mechanical end terminals onto said wire? Terminals which rely on friction, to a reasonable degree, in order to maintain their grip the wire?
As common sense would say that the two things are at odds with one another.

Especially as, typically when I install such fittings, I'm pretty anal about making sure that the wire ends, & all of the other components, are clean, & free of contaminants. To the point of making sure to always clean & degrease everything with Acetone, prior to beginning the installation of such fittings.

Reuse those wires that are o.k. and step your mast. Now, you can float your boat home. We once had two boats: one in Florida and another on Lake Michigan. We replaced our rigging on the Florida boat after 15 years. Our smaller boat on Lake Michigan still had the original standing rigging that was 20 years old when we sold it and the swages and wire were still in excellent condition.
Regarding the vessel in Michigan, having grown up sailing in said state, I know that Midwestern sailing seasons are fairly short. Given the climate. And that for much of the year, boats are on the hard. Often times with their masts unstepped, & with many of them stored indoors. Some even in heated buildings.
Plus, in Michigan, the water is fresh. So corrosion of all types is much, much less of a problem. If at all.

That, & that people on the Great Lakes simply don't much take their boats out sailing much, in conditions which are common on the ocean. Even when cruising, people hop from port to port, only when the weather forcast is for very moderate conditions. And such is fact. One drawn from a 15+ year background, sailing in said locale.
Thus, when you add up all of this, a Great Lakes daysailer/light cruiser, sees very different conditions from an ocean based vessel. And consequently, the two have FAR differing maintenance schedules.

Also, if you had a 2nd boat in Florida, how much service time did it see? And when it wasn't being used, what state of readyness was it kept in?
For, as they say, "A man cannot be a slave to two masters".
Hope this gives you another perspective. Good luck on your project.

I hate to sound overly critical. However, from where I sit, it seems that some important details may be getting glossed over. Ergo my request for some clarification.

Plus, I did a talley for the costs on the materials required to re-rig a boat of this size completely (via a SWAG at the wire sizes). And for the wire & Staloks, it came out at a bit under $600. In other words, not a lot of coin, in the grand scheme of things.

And on the re-rigging $ figure, odds are, if anything, I err'ed on wire & fittings which are a bit beefier than the boat needs. But even if I didn't, & I goofed in my size estimation. Thus necessitating going up a size,, in components & wire. The total cost would still be sub $1K, for everything. With the wire being the cheap part (SIC)!
Plus a couple of days of sweat equity, to measure, fabricate, & install everything; max.

So, were it me, I'd just go ahead & knock it out. Assuming that the structure of the boat supporting the spar is sound.

[JPA Cate]

Assuming that the structure of the boat supporting the spar is sound.

Quite so, that's the crux of it.

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Assuming that the structure of the boat supporting the spar is sound.

Quite so, that's the crux of it.

Ann

It could truly be a tragedy if it isn't. As the costs of structural repairs to inexpensive (relatively) boats, can quickly add up to more than the boat's worth.

[jmczzz]

Unciv, the wire is 1 x 19, I do not know the hardware make. Your estimates are well received by me regardless of your intent. I do not know "Boseshield T9". but will investigate.
I appreciate all input as I am learning from others experience during my lack of salt water sailing over the past decade. A lot has changed in knowledge and products. But most of all the new uncertainty of the economy, climate, civilization and boat markets.

I believe anyone that is still going there own way and surviving in today's world has a special talent, and I want to know anything they will share with me. Besides like minded folks must band together so not to perish.

Ms Ann, Your concern over my situation and safety is appreciated. I will take every precaution before exposing myself to danger I assure you. Hence my openness evidenced by this thread and my comments.

However the post from the apparent newer generation of sail-boaters has the flavor of modernity added. It is a sad truism that today's sailor must do more with less and get the most service possible from boats and equipment. rognvald, thomm225, MarkJ and others are of that school and have a diffidently modern and useful perspective.

For sure I value and thank you all for your obvious well informed thoughtful commentary. James

[JPA Cate]

jmczzz,

Good on ya! Always go with the most up to date info!

Ann

[thomm225]

If all else fails, remove the mast, strap it to the boat, and motor the ICW back to your home base just like you planned.

Had you planned to sail much anyway?

I met a couple in the early 90's that were motoring from Chicago to New Orleans. They had their mast down due to low bridges

https://www.google.com/search?q=moto...xQqHQ44GquM%3A

https://www.google.com/search?q=moto...6iXuIQJaR4M%3A

https://www.google.com/search?q=moto...-eQSNnhHyKM%3A

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Assuming that the structure of the boat supporting the spar is sound.

Quite so, that's the crux of it.

Ann

G'morning all. I had a thought regarding a quick, temporary fix for this, in order to ensure that the mast step has a solid structure to be affixed to. And I'm certainly open to feedback on it.

Why not just get a big aluminum plate. Say 2-3' x 4' or so, 1/2" - 3/4" thick, with beveled edges. And through bolt it to the cabin top temporarily, for the trip. Perhaps with some aluminum knees/angle, underneath of the deck, & maybe connecting it to the main bulkhead (preferably with bolts). And then put the mast step on top of it, up on deck.

That way, even if some of the deck in the vicinity of the mast step is compromised. Or some of the internal support structure inside of the boat is, the plate will spread out the load to so much of the cabin structure which is solid, that the spar should still have a solid base.

Admittedly, it's not the most elegant solution, but perhaps it's a simple & viable one. Which shouldn't cost much, & would be easy to effect.

PS: Between the beveled edes, & a couple of coats of paint, wit non-skid, it should help the plate to blend in a bit too.

[jmczzz]

i am wondering if I must take the mast down? I don't believe there are any bridges on my ICW route from Connecticut South that I cannot clear with it up. I think the answer is in inspecting the step on down to the keel. If a problem with support is found then down may be the way to go. What about boat stability on the open water, especially the passage down the Coast of New Jersey (Sandy Hook to Cape May) which I estimate 20 -24 hours on the motor at 5 knots. Although I do not remember what the conditions on Delaware Bay or the Chesapeake are.

Unciv. I just saw your idea. A good one. Would a couple of layers of 1/2" ply work just as good for the month or so of the trip? Cheaper and more available i think.
thanks James

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by jmczzz

What about boat stability on the open water, especially the passage down the Coast of New Jersey (Sandy Hook to Cape May) which I estimate 20 -24 hours on the motor at 5 knots

I have done NYC south a few times and I would go direct to Norfolk as it saves lots of time. Reasonable weather windows are well predicted in the right time of the year and there's plenty of bail out points (incl turning up the Delaware.

I would be very, very surprised if a boat lost its rig at sea without sails up.

If you get paranoid after reading this thread you could use your unused running rigging as extra shrouds. Just tie a bowline in a sheet end and loop it over the mast top and lash the fall to the toe rail.
Halyards make great extra fore stays

[jmczzz]

MarkJ, Good points. For that matter a couple extra coils of double braid would be good insurance. I had thought the zig zag up the Delaware and back down the Chesapeake to be a lot of lost motion.
thanks, James

[JPA Cate]

Here's some background...

The only time I have been on a boat that lost her mast was in the open ocean, about 65 mi. offshore, and in conditions where the rig couldn't be recovered by a crew of two. Repairing it and the collateral damage that occurred cost a whole lot of money. It was also a bit scary. So I think I'd prefer to not lose one, although it is an instructive experience. I am aware that it isn't such a big deal with smaller yachts.

jmczzz is looking at quite a lot of motoring, if he cannot sail the boat. It does appear that the whole journey from Connecticut to Mississipppi can be done in protected waters, at a WAG, 1500 n. mi, maybe 2,000. However, he's going to be using an outboard.

In no way do I think this is suicidal.

More, a colossal drag to have to motor the whole way. However, I am primarily an ocean sailor, and I have no experience of the areas where he will be taking his boat, but think the trip would be more fun if he can sail it.

To that end, I think UNCIVILIZED's most recent plan could work quite well, and addresses my concern about such a demanding journey for the outboard.

Ann