My Steering is Loose

[Kelkara]

Hi everyone,

MY steering wheel has about 20 degrees of play before engaging the rudder. I had assumed that all I needed to do was tighten the cables, but no, the cables are fine. The problem is the "wheel"-like thing that attaches to the rudder-post is loose on the post.

Anyway I can't figure out how to tighten it - any ideas?

It is a Cinkel steering system, and it is not original to the boat having been retrofitted in 1981. I don't know who decided it was a good idea to fill up such a small cockpit with a pedestal, but it barely leaves enough room to stand either infront or behind the wheel. If this is going to turn into a big job ... is there any reason not to just pull out the whole pedestal and re-install a tiller as the boat was originally built?

While I'm posting pictures - boat ownership still has it's perks ... this was the view out my "back door" this morning.

[jeepbluetj]

Dunno about Cinkel, but on a Edson radial drive wheel, after the wheel is clamped onto the rudderpost, it should be secured with a key, set screw, or through bolt. My C-30's is a bolt. (and I don't think my drive wheel will ever come off short of cutting it off... SS bolts in the Alum wheel are frozen solid)

Go back to tiller? For a 27 foot boat I'd think that's a pretty good idea if you can move your engine controls somewhere. And obviously you'll need to swap to a tillerpilot if you want an autopilot.

[transmitterdan]

Kelkara,

I would guess the key is probably sheared off. Either that or there is a bolt through the rudder shaft that has broken off. Need a picture of the shaft from the opposite side as these pictures.

It may not be a big project to fix this. You will have to unbolt the two halves of the quadrant (the big wheel with wires wrapped around it). Getting the quadrant off may not be easy after so many years. Might take some overnight soaking with PB Blaster and a little tapping but it will eventually come apart. Then to find the problem and fix it may or may not be easy. You might have to pull the rudder and take it to a machine shop. That would be tough to do in the water where you are located. May need a diver.

A tiller is an excellent idea in my opinion. However, that is a personal preference. Others will disagree.

You can still use a below deck autopilot but you have to fix the quadrant first. But still no need for the cables, wheel and the pedestal if you use a tiller. That will free up a lot of cockpit space.

Good luck,

[Steve Bean]

I vote for a tiller. KISS. You'll still need to fasten something to the rudder shaft in a very secure way.

[Jim Cate]

While I'm not one of those "tillers or bust" types, I agree that it makes very good sense to revert to the original tiller steering in your case. Should be simple, unless the folks who put the wheel steering in cut off the top of the rudder post where it emerges in the cockpit. You could even leave the quadrant in place if it proves very difficult to remove... just take the cables off and remove the pedestal. May be some holes in the cockpit sole to glass up, but shouldn't be too hard.

Really, from the photo you posted, t he wheel is a huge nuisance to you... even a safety hazard.. what a silly thing for the PO to have spent big bucks on!

Jim

[groundtackle]

As Transmit says, take it apart and find out what the issues are. It's all fixable. Usually it's a install issue.
We call them 'Crinkle', they make spars too. Have funny names for everyones stuff.
ce

[bratzcpa]

Yes, there definitely should be 'something' that attaches the quadrant to the shaft very solidly. On mine (ask me how I know!!!), it's a through bolt. And yes, it too was very difficult to remove because of the dissimilar metals issue (AL and SS). When I reassembled, I used Marelube to prevent that problem in the future.

I can't see a through bolt in the picture, so perhaps yours has a key on the shaft.

In any case, I'm pretty sure there should be something there to prevent any movement.

markb

[hamburking]

Revert to tiller...but leave the quadrant in place and build a below deck autohelm...that would be excellent!

[Cadence]

I would guess a key has sheared?

[TrentePieds]

Kelkara:

Scupper the wheel steering! I have wheel steering, too, in TrentePieds designed at the same time as my friend Ted Brewer designed the Hullmaser 27. Back then, with every Tom, Dick and Harry lusting after sailboats, and with every Tom, Dick and Harry being ignorant of the fundamentals of seafaring, it was important for the "yards" that provided a livelihood to naval architects to be able to offer boats that deluded lubbers into thinking that "driving" a sailboat is like driving a Toyota. THAT is why tiny toy ships like HM27, and TrentePieds, were fitted with something so singularly dysfunctional in a small boat as wheel-steering.

Wheel-steering is utterly inappropriate in five ton boats for a number of reasons we can discuss if you like.

For now, perhaps it will help you to know that if you project the rudder stock in an HM27 upwards, the projection will come through the cockpit sole just FORWARD of the twartships seat on the inboard side of the transom.

The consequence of that is that to scupper the wheel-steering is simplicity itself. Just rip out the pedestal and deep-six it, unless you can find someone to take it off your hands. But the market for second-hand pedestals is gonna be flooded, cos TrentePieds' is gonna go as well :-)!

Sleeve together the top of the existing stock with a piece of round bar of the same diameter. Though-bolt the sleeve on both parts of the stock. Where the new part of the stock comes through the deck fit a stuffing box like the one at the inboard end of your stern tube. At the top of the new part of the stock, in the cockpit, fit the tiller.

In TrentePieds it's a little more involved than that, but it's gonna get done nevertheless. I have designed the fitting that will attach the tiller to the stock. We can talk about that if you like.

Kelkara used to sail outta Victoria/Sidney, and your profile sez "V.I." I'll be in the Southern Gulf Islands in early April, so if you like, we could meet up - perhaps in Lyall Harbour.

TrentePieds

[Cheechako]

I removed wheel steering from my Rawson 30 when prepping it for cruising. I put an Freeman aluminum access hatch on the cockpit floor in lieu of the hole the steering unit left. That allowed me great access to the engine also. However, my boat had the rudder shaft already protruding from the cockpit floor and ready for a tiller/fitting. How would you deal with your rudder shaft etc?

[barnakiel]

Why wheel on a 27 footer??? You going cruising?

b.

[boeing1]

I would check for broken key or through bolt, did this start all at once or did it continue to get worse

[Pete7]

Steering pedestal looks like a Cobra Mk 4 or 5 and very similar to ours. They are like rocking horse pooh this side of the Atlantic so keep it safe and clean until the Spring and sell it for a mint. Since its now winter in the Northern hemisphere its a great time to get a tiller made or make one yourself. You may need the top mounting if that is missing but shouldn't be too expensive if you can't find a second hand one and have to have one made.you will also need a spare so something like an axe handle will do nicely.

What is in the stainless steel tank? that is also taking up room. Why is it in the cockpit and not a locker?

Finally the cockpit drains look a little small, any chance in increasing the number or there size?

Pete

[notiesbob]

Fortunately they are long gone manufacture. Their steering systems were terrible knock offs and spars not much better IMHO