'Naval Architects and Designers Are a Waste of Money'

[LtBrett]

"Naval architects and designers are a waste of money!" - The WoodenBoat Forum

A tale of hubris, aesthetics, and easy credit...

Brett

[Ishmael]

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Pelagic]

Fantastic link and story about the lack of engineering and practical competency during the “feasibility stage” of a new design project.

I have seen the same launching outcome in Holland when a 48m super yacht designed by a famous NA slipped down the rails with the Brass band playing.

Slowly, slowly the stern went way below her marks causing the knowledgeable band to slow down in perfect accompaniment to her awkward position as she came to rest like a constipated duck.

Finally silence, no speeches and after they measured her floating marks, she was hauled up and disappeared into the shipyard for over a year

I would not say Naval Architects are a “waste of money”, instead I think of them as “Idea Men”. Pay them for their ideas but get independent engineering conformation of their structural, stability and performance calculations before proceeding with the build.

Get an experienced captain to look at the ergonomics of the design as it pertains to maintenance.

[James S]

I may have to join that site just so I can see how that abomination floats....amazing that more than one person could think that was an attractive design....they are partners right!

[mesquaukee]

I have dealt with a lot of architects and designers. They like to put a little stamp on every drawing saying that the contractor should verify every and all dimensions.

It would be nice to believe the "naval" prefix implied perfection.

[Chief Engineer]

will not be resposible for any errors or omissions in this report, no guarantee of operation/condition is blah blah blah

Originally Posted by mesquaukee

I have dealt with a lot of architects and designers. They like to put a little stamp on every drawing saying that the contractor should verify every and all dimensions.

It would be nice to believe the "naval" prefix implied perfection.

[mesquaukee]

Originally Posted by Chief Engineer

will not be resposible for any errors or omissions in this report, no guarantee of operation/condition is blah blah blah

It would appear they are all alike.

[Blue Stocking]

Come on Guys!!!!

One very respected Naval Architect who is a regular contributor to this forum has probably 100's of successful designs. A number of you are probably sailing his boats.
You can't paint them all with the same brush.

[Maren]

I have dealt with a lot of architects and designers. They like to put a little stamp on every drawing saying that the contractor should verify every and all dimensions.

Which they should do, for several reasons.

It would be nice to believe the "naval" prefix implied perfection.

Isn't that like saying there are good ones and bad ones, just like with every other profession?

[Sandero]

For those who feel architect's are not worth the fee, please be my guest and design your own boat, or building. Good luck.

Of course there are incompetent architects as there are incompetent dentists, skippers and bricklayers and marine surveyors. A title probably means that you managed to climb the ladder and make it through some gates.

There is more incompetence out there than you could imagine.

[mesquaukee]

A few bad apples.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Come on Guys!!!!

One very respected Naval Architect who is a regular contributor to this forum has probably 100's of successful designs. A number of you are probably sailing his boats.
You can't paint them all with the same brush.

No, but you should not consider them as infallible and allow them to control the project.


As I said before, Naval Architects and Designers are “idea” people.

Where they get the client into trouble is when they feel they can also engineer and provide the design solutions during the production phase. Problem is… their rather small design staff has only theoretical rather than actual build experience and they make production mistakes at the clients or boat builder’s expense. (Finger pointing times).

The smart Designers realize this and confine themselves to conceptual drawings to illustrate their ideas and then they let the Builder work out the construction drawings based on their proven build methods and “as built” engineering experience.

Where screw-ups happen is when the Designer contractually has approval and his ego and industry politics get in the way of common sense engineering, so the Builder follows really stupid designer solutions by a design company that has no assets to back-up and insure their work. The client ultimately suffers.

On projects I do, I spend a lot of money and time up front, (before putting contract out to tender) doing a design and independent feasibility study so as to assure both the client and competing yards…. that we have actually done our homework, with the specific detail needed to allow the yards to give me a detailed costing .

I then negotiate a fixed price based on a “Design and Build Agreement” with the shipyard, where they are contractually bound to view all the drawing work and detail specifications we have given to them as “Contract Guidance drawings”.

They are still responsible to satisfy themselves that the engineering solutions will work and know that if there are any failures or cost over-runs…the buck stops with the Yard

In the end, it saves a lot of money on dramatically reduced “change orders” and assures a clear line of responsibility

The client gets exactly what he wants at the price agreed to and the actual build phase is somewhat anticlimactic, which helps me to maintain a positive relationship with the Builders and clients.

[mesquaukee]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

No, but you should not consider them as infallible and allow them to control the project.


As I said before, Naval Architects and Designers are “idea” people........

Take the naval away and you have described the exact same problem I have encountered in the building industry.

[GordMay]

According to Architect Frank Lloyd Wright, the physician can bury his mistakes, but the architect can only advise his clients to plant vines.

***

Apathy or Ignorance:

Boatowner to Contracting Boatbuilder: That's the lousiest construction I've ever seen! Is that because you're ignorant or apathetic?

Boatbuilder: Huh? I don't know what you mean.

Boatowner: Do you know the difference between ignorance and apathy?

Boatbuilder: No, but who cares?

***

Q: How many boatbuilders does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. They simply redefine darkness as the industry standard.

[Chief Engineer]

Owner: I think I am going to install a backup GPS and get a Handheld Unit too.

Me: You'll either know exactly where you are lost, or will be in constant doubt of where you are.