Need Advice on Stress Cracks

[landonshaw]

I need some help on deciphering a quote and bill. I am not questioning the dollar amount so will not include that in the discussion, only the terminology.
I originally took the boat in to have the small cracks around the stanchions repaired. In the discussion it was recommended that I have the stanchions removed and a plate be placed at the base on the deck and tie that to a plate under the deck to spread the load, bolted. Otherwise the cracks will probably reappear in time. Knowing that was the case I agreed.

I also got a quote to have small cracks repaired in other areas of the deck. All of these cracks are superficial and looked to be only in the gel coat. The boat is 31 years old. After the work was completed, there was no mention that the cracks were anything other than superficial.

The three lines on the quote are as follows:

(Item Number 1 & separate price)
Stanchion Bases


Removal and Re-installation, of all stanchion bases


(3M 4200UV caulking and new bolting system tba)

(Item Number 2 & separate price)
Stress Crack repairs, Vinylester/glass over 20:1 scarf.

(Item Number 3 & separate price)
Reforcement and modification and repairs of damaged deck areas
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass lamination over 20:1 scarf techniques
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass 20:1 scarf techniques integrated internal re-inforcement
External re-inforcement (pre fab) glass/polyester/gel coat


When I got the boat back I found that the stress cracks around the stanchions were still visible. I questioned this and they said that they repaired the cracks under the plates, now not visible, but left the others to be addressed when I came back to have the surface gel coated.

Question 1: It is my contention that the repairs of the surface cracks are addressed in Item 2, & 3. The future gel coating is another project.

Question 2: What exactly does it mean by 20:1 scarf?

[landonshaw]

Picture of stress cracks

[SV Windrush II]

Originally Posted by landonshaw

I need some help on deciphering a quote and bill. I am not questioning the dollar amount so will not include that in the discussion, only the terminology.
I originally took the boat in to have the small cracks around the stanchions repaired. In the discussion it was recommended that I have the stanchions removed and a plate be placed at the base on the deck and tie that to a plate under the deck to spread the load, bolted. Otherwise the cracks will probably reappear in time. Knowing that was the case I agreed.

I also got a quote to have small cracks repaired in other areas of the deck. All of these cracks are superficial and looked to be only in the gel coat. The boat is 31 years old. After the work was completed, there was no mention that the cracks were anything other than superficial.

The three lines on the quote are as follows:

(Item Number 1 & separate price)
Stanchion Bases


Removal and Re-installation, of all stanchion bases


(3M 4200UV caulking and new bolting system tba)

(Item Number 2 & separate price)
Stress Crack repairs, Vinylester/glass over 20:1 scarf.

(Item Number 3 & separate price)
Reforcement and modification and repairs of damaged deck areas
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass lamination over 20:1 scarf techniques
Stanchion Base areas, vinylester/glass 20:1 scarf techniques integrated internal re-inforcement
External re-inforcement (pre fab) glass/polyester/gel coat


When I got the boat back I found that the stress cracks around the stanchions were still visible. I questioned this and they said that they repaired the cracks under the plates, now not visible, but left the others to be addressed when I came back to have the surface gel coated.

Question 1: It is my contention that the repairs of the surface cracks are addressed in Item 2, & 3. The future gel coating is another project.

Question 2: What exactly does it mean by 20:1 scarf?

So for starters a 20:1 scarf means that the taper on the scarf is 20 times wider than it is deep, so that the repair has a wide area of bonding and re-enforcement.
So looks like they should have ground out the cracks with a 20:1 scarf (Taper) and reinforced it with glass like the quote said and then applied gel coat over the top.

But without looking at it, I am making some assumptions

[minaret]

Originally Posted by landonshaw

Picture of stress cracks

Post more pics. Pretty sure these guys are trying to get over on you. 20:1 scarf ratio refers to how wide the repairs are made, ie if they ground 1/8" deep, the repair would be 2 1/2" radius, or 5" wide. Your stanchion bases aren't that big, so what they are claiming is impossible.


The chances of that crack being just cosmetic are quite low.

[landonshaw]

I will get more pics and post. Thanks for the help. Dave

[Fiveslide]

My opinion, unproffesional as it may be, is they didn't repair that to your expectations. To me, your expectations seem reasonable. It appears that crack extends under the stachion base and that stanchion will have to be removed, again, to repair that crack in the gelcoat properly and completely.

What that nonsense printed on your bill describes, I can't tell you. What's the old saying, "If can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$#/!"

I think that bill reads like the latter.



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[landonshaw]

Additional pics

[natew]

Those don't look cosmetic to me.

What exactly DID they do as far as work? I see a little bit of "whiter" paint that looks like they did some work fore and aft of the stanchion base and possibly underneath it. However, with those other cracks so nearby I really am baffled that they did not extend out the work to include repairing those cracks.

I suppose they could be planning that you would simply grind down those cracks and fill in with microballons or something else when you do the gelocat which would probably be a fine method of fixing them assuming that the original source was from the flexing stanchion base and that that has been thoroughly addressed. Of course that really seems like the cheap lame way to do it considering they were already working a half an inch away and reglassing the area anyways the amount of extra glass, resin, and time it would have taken to just take care of those at the same time wouldn't even have been noticed. You probably would have ended up with a more obvious repaired area but that's relatively insignificant if you plan to repaint in the future anyway.

[thinwater]

Was the repair internal?

[Tropic Cat]

since when does 3M 4200 dry clear? - stanchion base - Has someone used silicone on your boat?

[landonshaw]

They put a plate under the stanchion, white. That is what you are seeing around the base. Under the deck they also put a plate that when the bolts went through, they tightened the plate on the deck to they plate below the deck. Spreading the load over a wider area.
I don't understand why the cracks were not repaired as that was my original issue. The deck gel coat was a future project.
There are no cracks that show work being done extending beyond the added plate. My thought is that they put the plates on and never opened up the cracks, 20:1, did the repair then put the plates on top.