Need help sourcing a steering part - again

[jimjimmyjimjim]

Hi all,
ONce again I need help trying to identify a part and find a source on my '72 Formosa.
This time it's a part for the steering wheel shaft. When I got the boat the helm was in pieces because the PO was replacing all the cables and chain. I received everything except this one piece.
If you look at the photo with the red arrow you can see a huge space between the bronze brake and the wheel shaft. The ID of the brake is 2 1/4" and the OD of the wheel shaft is 1 3/8". I'm assuming there is some sort of huge bushing that goes there but I cannot find any information on it. I have no idea what make or model the pedestal is. The pedestal is approximately 7" in diameter at its widest.

Does anyone know what this is or maybe have a picture of the piece? If I have a picture of the piece I can have one made if necessary.
Thanks again, Jim

[pesarsten]

Is it possible that the sprocket is installed incorrectly and that if reversed, would fit into the brake housing?

[Bellinghamster]

Originally Posted by pesarsten

Is it possible that the sprocket is installed incorrectly and that if reversed, would fit into the brake housing?

*ding ding ding* winner? I was picturing a section of "tube" with a keyway broached in it that would make the inner rotating portion of the brake.... pretty much exactly what's on the other side of the sprocket!

[jimjimmyjimjim]

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately that doesn't work either. It's a closer fit but still there's a gap of roughly 1/4" and the brake can't clamp down on the shaft. Also, the rest of the key holes don't line up and the sprocket is free to move back and forth on the shaft.
The more I look at it the more convinced I am that I'm missing some parts. But without a drawing or photo of the original I can't tell what those parts might be.

[Bellinghamster]

I can't see well enough how the brake "clamp" works, but assuming it either clamps smaller, or offsets (pulls) to one side/up/down when the brake is applied, then a bronze sleeve with it's OD slightly smaller than the ID of the unclamped brake clamping arrangement (ID of the brake minus 0.020" -ish) and ID bored to match the OD of the shaft + .002 to .003, and a keyway broached in it should work. Or flip the sprocket around and have a split bushing made with same dimensions as above but without the keyway.

[jimjimmyjimjim]

Originally Posted by Bellinghamster

I can't see well enough how the brake "clamp" works, but assuming it either clamps smaller, or offsets (pulls) to one side/up/down when the brake is applied, then a bronze sleeve with it's OD slightly smaller than the ID of the unclamped brake clamping arrangement (ID of the brake minus 0.020" -ish) and ID bored to match the OD of the shaft + .002 to .003, and a keyway broached in it should work. Or flip the sprocket around and have a split bushing made with same dimensions as above but without the keyway.

You're right, the brake clamps smaller. This is pretty much the part I invisioned going in there.

[Dsanduril]

Are you sure about the brake? Where is the brake shaft outlet on the pedestal (don't see it in the pictures)?

In the top down picture it looks like nothing is supporting the back (actually probably the front - in boat terms) end of the shaft? In that case I would expect a sleeve bearing inside the bronze to support that end of the shaft.

What bearing is in the other end (where the shaft exits the pedestal)? Again, I'd expect a sleeve bearing of some kind, in our steering of that era they were phenolic, and later Delrin. If you take the bearing out of the pedestal side, does it fit in the bronze ring?

[jimjimmyjimjim]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Are you sure about the brake? . . .

In the top down picture it looks like nothing is supporting the back (actually probably the front - in boat terms) . . .

What bearing is in the other end (where the shaft exits the pedestal)? . . .

In the photo below the bow is on the left and the stern is on the right.

The brake (#1 in the photo) is a pinch type. As you can see it can only pinch about 1/8". The forward end of the shaft has a reduced OD that fits into a hole machined into the pedestal (#2). The rear of the shaft has an increased OD that fits the hole in the aft side of the pedestal (#5). There's no clearance for a sleeve bushing at either end. It's very rudimentary. The bronze ring (#4) locks the shaft into the pedestal to keep it from working out the back. You can just see the hole in the shaft where this bronze ring locks. There are 3 such holes in the shaft, you can see 2 of them. The 3rd is under the sprocket and lined up with the hole in the sprocket in the photo. Also, the slot cut in the shaft for a key is about 1 1/2" longer than the sprocket - which to me, means there is supposed to be another piece in there.

The sprocket has a threaded hole and a keyway slot cut into it which lines up with one of 2 holes in the shaft depending on which way I orientate the sprocket . If I turn the sprocket around (from what's in the photo) and line the sprocket hole with the shaft hole towards the rear of the shaft there is nothing in the brake. If I turn the sprocket around (like it is in the photo) there's a huge gap between the sprocket and the brake. And, there's a 3" space between the sprocket and the bronze ring (#4).

I'm not sure if this description makes things clearer of not.

Looking at these pieces it's obvious that 1 or more pieces are missing. If I knew what they were I could buy them or have them made.

[jimjimmyjimjim]

After doing extensive research online, I've decided on the following course of action: With the sprocket in the orientation in the picture above there is about a 1/8" gap between the sprocket and the brake. I am going to epoxy some 1/8" brake pad material from McMaster Carr to the inside of the brake. That will take up the space and act as a friction pad to lock the wheel. I actually, found a video of some guy who did this and it worked pretty well.
Wish me luck. Thanks for all of the great advise!

[sailor_ed]

Originally Posted by jimjimmyjimjim

After doing extensive research online, I've decided on the following course of action: With the sprocket in the orientation in the picture above there is about a 1/8" gap between the sprocket and the brake. I am going to epoxy some 1/8" brake pad material from McMaster Carr to the inside of the brake. That will take up the space and act as a friction pad to lock the wheel. I actually, found a video of some guy who did this and it worked pretty well.
Wish me luck. Thanks for all of the great advise!

The original design would not have included a metal to metal brake

[Dsanduril]

+1. Every brake system I've seen included some kind of pad. I'm guessing it was a split sleeve that went inside the bronze carrier, sliding clearance when open, friction increases as brake knob is tightened. The photo as you have it shown is how I would expect it to go together, with the brake pads riding on the sprocket body not on the wheel shaft.

I guess the only question would be if the pin in the sprocket lines up with a hole in the shaft the way you have it shown? I see you answered that, I just didn't catch it on the first read.

[ResoluteRI]

My '79 Island Trader (Formosa) 41' pedestal is the same but note on the aft end, the bronze sleeve and hex nut, which your photo does not show. Would that matter to your question? Also not space between sprocket and brake.