Neighbors Boat Fire Seriously Damages My Boat

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Brewgyver

While he said he has "no insurance," the OP may have simply meant that he doesn't have hull coverage, and thus has no insurance which will pay for his repairs. He may very well have liability coverage, on this coast you can't get a (non-transient) marina slip without it.

Very true. Good point. Doesn’t change the thrust of my comment though. I say talk to the person first before assuming the worst.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

A good reason to purchase insurance before it's needed. IMHO you'll never see any compensation, just like when my neighbor's terribly neglected house had most of it's shingles blow off and onto my car. Many small dents and I never saw a dime. He put on a new roof and I was told to go pound sand by his insurance company because it was considered an "Act of God," my auto insurance told me I needed to pay the first $1000, the deductible.

Good luck and learn from the unfortunate experience.

Hmmm, so you both had insurance in this case, but you still had to pay the $1000. Sounds like you’re arguing insurance is not so useful

… or were you trying to make a different point .

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

(snip) Just a rhetorical question, but I do not know the answer, Why, how, should and would a pellet stove start a fire in 40 mph "wind?"

From the linked news article:

Sheriff's Office Chief William Barbera said when the man smelled smoke and opened the door to his sleeping quarters to investigate, the rush of oxygen caused a flash of flames...

The described circumstances would indicate that the pellet stove did not have an adequate supply of combustion air, so it was either portable or not properly installed.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

(snip) Why, how, should and would a pellet stove start a fire in 40 mph "wind?"

From the linked news article:

Sheriff's Office Chief William Barbera said when the man smelled smoke and opened the door to his sleeping quarters to investigate, the rush of oxygen caused a flash of flames, engulfing the victim

That would indicate that the pellet stove did not have an adequate supply of combustion air, so either it was an outdoor unit or it was not properly installed. The wind, or lack of it, was most likely not a factor, but it is possible to have wind cause a lack of draft in some heating equipment that is otherwise correctly installed. Lack of draft can also result in a flash fire when the air pressure balance changes suddenly (in this case by opening the door).

[rwidman]

This situation reinforces the opinion that not insuring your boat is a foolish choice. If the OP had insurance on his "classic" boat, his insurance company would pay for his loss and go after the other boat owner.

At this point, all the OP can do is file a claim with the other boater's insurance company or sue him directly for damages.

I can't imagine the marina being responsible for this.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by rwidman

This situation reinforces the opinion that not insuring your boat is a foolish choice. If the OP had insurance on his "classic" boat, his insurance company would pay for his loss and go after the other boat owner

Sometimes, the choice may be having no boat or having a boat without insurance. We each make our own choices if and when possible. Believe it or not, I have friends who feel having a boat with insurance or without is a foolish choice.

I am not even going to try to explain real life to someone who believes, "If the OP had insurance on his "classic" boat, his insurance company would pay for his loss...," except to use the words, maybe, and lucky.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Hmmm, so you both had insurance in this case, but you still had to pay the $1000. Sounds like you’re arguing insurance is not so useful

… or were you trying to make a different point .

Not arguing or trying to make any point other than IMHO the OP will never see a dime of restitution from either the other boat owner or the marina. Each party will refer him to his own insurance company. He doesn't have one.

I never paid the $1000, the car still has the dents; we only insure for the BIG stuff over $1000 and pay out of pocket for the little stuff. Sounds like the OP doesn't insure for any stuff, or chooses to self-insure. There's nothing wrong with self-insuring an item and sometimes it makes perfect sense especially when an item has depreciated significantly, but when stuff happens....

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

Sometimes, the choice may be having no boat or having a boat without insurance. .............

The responsible choice would be to have no boat at all.

With no insurance, he could lose everything he owns if he is responsible for an accident or even just someone hurting themselves on his boat. And of course he is leaving the rest of us unprotected.

I think liability insurance should be mandatory for owning a boat just like it is for cars.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Hmmm, so you both had insurance in this case, but you still had to pay the $1000. Sounds like you’re arguing insurance is not so useful
.

Most of us have deductibles on our insurance to save money on the premiums. It would be very expensive to insure down to the last $.10.

I'll bet you have a deductible on your own insurance.

[pitlaw]

So, there is a possible claim on the marina. A legal theory to consider could be that their failure to inspect and enfoce their rules, such as requiring ins, no heaters of the type that caused the fire etc. could mak them liable for your damage. This would be a solid claim if you can find someone who complained before the fire to the marina about the culprits use of the cause of he fie. Of course look to the other boat owners insurance first. As the at fault party his liability ins would be first to attack. Use a lawyer if neither stands up and gives you satisfaction.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by rwidman

The responsible choice would be to have no boat at all.

With no insurance, he could lose everything he owns if he is responsible for an accident or even just someone hurting themselves on his boat. And of course he is leaving the rest of us unprotected.

I think liability insurance should be mandatory for owning a boat just like it is for cars.

By inference, you feel it is irresponsible to have a boat without insurance. Could be. I take you opinion as a warning to all of us who go to sea or have gone to sea to avoid the personal social, political, and economic opinions and intolerances of others, enjoy it while you can and as soon as you can. This place of escape is fast disappearing, and in danger of soon being gone.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Not arguing or trying to make any point other than IMHO the OP will never see a dime of restitution from either the other boat owner or the marina. Each party will refer him to his own insurance company. He doesn't have one.

OK, I get it. You’re pointing out insurance can be pretty cheap if you choose a higher deductible. So you’re covered for the big stuff. Got it .

Originally Posted by rwidman

Most of us have deductibles on our insurance to save money on the premiums. It would be very expensive to insure down to the last $.10.

I'll bet you have a deductible on your own insurance.

I do indeed. I was just clarifying what Ken was trying to say. In his scenario his insurance was not useful (or perhaps not needed is more accurate). But it might have been very useful to the OP right now.

The OP says (s)he has no insurance. I assume this means no comprehensive insurance. It doesn’t mean no 3rd party liability insurance, so those quick to pass moral judgement should hold their tongues.

Along these lines of moral indignation, most liability policies typically cover you for up $2M. In the case of a marina fire, it’s not hard to wrack up damages in the many millions. So what happens when the price of your negligent behaviour comes to more than your insurance limit? Are you also “irresponsible?” At which amount do you avoid being labeled a boating pariah?

[Jim Cate]

Crikeys, guys, from a single first post which was not very informative, we are accusing the OP of being a bad person, unfit to own or operate a boat and moralizing all over the place. Assumptions with little backing are used to support all this rhetoric.

As far as I can see, the only facts that we have at hand are:

There was a serious fire on another boat.

There was collateral damage to the OP's boat, described as "serious" but not defined at all.

The OP does not have insurance that will pay for the damage. He may or may not have 3d party insurance.

The owner of t he burnt boat says he has no insurance. He was apparently living aboard, but this is not proven, and that practice is not permitted by the marina. the marina may or may not have been aware of his practice.

The marina may or may not require tenants to have at least 3d party coverage.

We do not know how much communication there has been with the other owner, or the marina re any of these issues.

We do not know if the OP's boat has big structural damage (holes burnt in the hull, ect) or melted sails/running rigging, or scorched timber trim, or all of the above. We don't know if the damage is even repairable.

So, in light of all this, i'd suggest backing off on the accusations and character assassination. The advice to consult an appropriate lawyer and to gather data makes sense, and has been repeated enough times now. i bet that cburger has taken note. If he cares to tell us a bit more, then further advice could be in order if requested.

Personally, I agree that 3d party insurance is a necessary part of ownership these days, especially in litigious places like the USA and, sadly, Australia. We cruised self-insured for many years, but as the world changed, so did we... and it is now required by very nearly all marinas and slipways here in Oz, and to the tune of a minimum of five million dollars!!!

jim

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Not arguing or trying to make any point other than IMHO the OP will never see a dime of restitution from either the other boat owner or the marina. Each party will refer him to his own insurance company. He doesn't have one.

I never paid the $1000, the car still has the dents; we only insure for the BIG stuff over $1000 and pay out of pocket for the little stuff. Sounds like the OP doesn't insure for any stuff, or chooses to self-insure. There's nothing wrong with self-insuring an item and sometimes it makes perfect sense especially when an item has depreciated significantly, but when stuff happens....

Struggling to understand why you didn't take him to small claims court for the damage to your car.

[Cadence]

Come on folks. If the guy was living onboard in a marina that didn't condone it chances are he lost every thing he owned. You can't get blood out of a stone. If the marina didn't require insurance of people when someone rents a slip, I guess you have that understanding. A sad situation but it is what it is.

[Madehn]

Originally Posted by VAGABOND47

I am not feeling as kindly as the previous posters.
Karma is creeping up on you, teaching you that you have to play by the rules and carry insurance.
If both of you were properly covered, as is required by most marinas, you would have no worries.
Personally I have had to deal with two uninsured boaters damaging my boat and I have NO patience for it.
Quite honestly I hope that your neighbors were as concerned about their fellow boaters as you, and carried no insurance.
Neither of you should have been able to utilize facilities for dock space while uninsured and you are getting what you deserve.
Please, stay on dry land until you can play by the rules that the rest of us responsible vessel owners are forced to pay for.

self righteous replies like that are the reason why i like having a boat- when i end up too close to someone like this i can make the appropriate hand gesture and leave- life is to short to have to put up with crap-- sorry for your troubles- i think your first step would be to talk to the owner of the boat and the marina. document everything with as many pictures and statements including your own for future use if needed- many times things can be talked through- i dont imagine the guy got up that morning and thought HMMM today i will burn my boat, go the hospital, and damage my neighbors property just for fun. His day didnt go well either but he may be a stand up guy that takes care of everything- give him a chance first.