Neighbors Boat Fire Seriously Damages My Boat

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by cburger

The marina requires in writing that boats are insured.

How were you there uninsured?

[cburger]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

How were you there uninsured?

Good question, they never asked. Actually I have a current policy with Boats US, the issue is it's a land only policy, my partner who was bought out of her share of the boat just this September handled all the administrative requirements for the vessel was responsible insurance, been paying policy for 10 years and never new there is land and in water policies, never actually read the contract, shame on me, evidently neither did any of the marinas who have been given my certificate over the years.

[cburger]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

How were you there uninsured?

Good question, they never asked. Actually I have a current policy with Boats US, the issue is it's a land only policy, my partner who was bought out of her share of the boat just this September handled all the administrative requirements for the vessel was responsible insurance, been paying policy for 10 years and never knew there is land and in water policies, never actually read the contract, shame on me, evidently neither did any of the marinas who have been given my certificate over the years.

[Cadence]

I not anti marina and their " deep pockets". I feel sure they have liability for something that is their fault. It's a business like any other. I'm sure their property taxes and insurance is a bunch along with the investment.

I can't help but think those that are critical have never run a business.

[cburger]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

How were you there uninsured?

Good question, they never asked. Actually I have a current policy with Boats US, the issue is it's a land only policy, my partner who was bought out of her share of the boat just this September handled all the administrative requirements for the vessel was responsible for insurance, have been paying policy for 10 years and never knew there is a difference between land and in water policies, never actually read the contract, shame on me, evidently neither did any of the marinas who have been given my certificate over the years.

[cburger]

Couple of pics

[cburger]

A few more

[buzzstar]

This is tiresome. The marina has probable liability, your partner who did not properly execute his fiduciary duty may have liability, the owner of the other boat probably has liability (but no $) and probably you have some liability for your own failures. This has all been stated repeatedly in various ways. It is time for your to make a decision and stop reporting that you have taken no action except talking to a surveyor and whining about the marina (in my book this is called procrastination). Go to the lawyer, even the one that says the marina has a good lawyer. The facts appear to be in your favor as to the marina at the vary least. BTW what is a "land only" policy for a boat? Only coverage if it is on the hard? Who did that, your former partner or the agent. Nothing done after you splashed her? Come on. Move on what you have. Or not.

[hellosailor]

If the marina expressly prohibits liveaboards, one might ask if the marina was negligent or even grossly negligent, in not checking to make sure there were no liveaboards. On that theory, the marina should have reasonably found that the presence of a wood stove and a liveaboard violated their terms, and their failure in turn allowed the situation and the damage to occur.
I think you'd find an initial consultation with a lawyer to be useful. Often that's either free or reasonable. If they think there are grounds like this that would make the marina liable...the marina might be liable for everything including court and legal costs.
If they had simply enforced their own written policies, there would have been no problem, right? And it is SO hard to see a stove exhaust? And presumably cabin lights on at night, every night? Of course the downside is that the marina may terminate your rental, not to mention, your insurance may need some attending to.

[valhalla360]

I

Originally Posted by cburger

The marina requires in writing that boats are insured. Manager actually provided a copy of the questionnaire that was filled out by the owner of the offending boat with a space for the name of the insurance provider and stipulating certificate of insurance required, he lied indicating Boats US. As far as "the process" might of been nice to been contacted about whether any progress has been locating owner, nice to know that offending boat was salvaged in order to learn more about cause of fire, etc, etc.

Sounds like they got written notification that the guy had insurance. The boat owner committing fraud is not the marina's fault. Most marinas accept verbal notification that the boat has insurance. A line on a form indicating it has insurance is a step beyond that. They made a reasonable attempt (in the legal sense) effort to verify he had insurance. There is no requirement that they do a detailed background check on the owner's insurance status or set out spies to determine if there are liveaboards.

Where in your marina contract does it provide a "process" for notifying you of their interactions with other customers and their boats? We were talking about the insurance verification process. Unless you serve them official notice that you are making a claim against the marina, your issue is with the other boat owner (if you do serve notice, expect to hear nothing unless legally compelled to do so). They have zero obligation to notify you of their interactions with the other boat owner.

I agree, it sucks but if you do get a lawyer set it up so they get a cut of any proceeds, not you paying up front. Some lawyers will bleed you dry on a case you can't win.

[RedOctober]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

If the marina expressly prohibits liveaboards, one might ask if the marina was negligent or even grossly negligent, in not checking to make sure there were no liveaboards. On that theory, the marina should have reasonably found that the presence of a wood stove and a liveaboard violated their terms, and their failure in turn allowed the situation and the damage to occur.
I think you'd find an initial consultation with a lawyer to be useful. Often that's either free or reasonable. If they think there are grounds like this that would make the marina liable...the marina might be liable for everything including court and legal costs.
If they had simply enforced their own written policies, there would have been no problem, right? And it is SO hard to see a stove exhaust? And presumably cabin lights on at night, every night? Of course the downside is that the marina may terminate your rental, not to mention, your insurance may need some attending to.

new to this site and thread and find it quite interesting. In response to your query; most staff from the marina would leave at five oclock and perhaps not see whether someone is living aboard or just spending the night. OP states didnt know insurance policy he has on his boat; claiming ignorance when owning a vessel is lack of responsibility . that being said..marina is obviously not checking anyones insurance if OP stated he also did not have insurance and they didnt ask. Marina appears liable..they will settle out of court more than likely. OP may not recoup unless judge orders full entitlement to restoration. Land policy? read the fine print . You have a long road in front of you. good luck mate.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by cburger

Good question, they never asked. Actually I have a current policy with Boats US, the issue is it's a land only policy, my partner who was bought out of her share of the boat just this September handled all the administrative requirements for the vessel was responsible for insurance, have been paying policy for 10 years and never knew there is a difference between land and in water policies, never actually read the contract, shame on me, evidently neither did any of the marinas who have been given my certificate over the years.

Mr. B,

However interesting this topic has been, and how much we all feel for you and your situation, may I kindly and sincerely recommend that you

just STOP writing about this

NOW!

You just exposed yourself to significant issues if the opposing parties to this issue find this thread.

Please, for your own sake, just shut up about this.

Completely.

Immediately.

Good luck.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, RedOctober.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by RedOctober

... that being said..marina is obviously not checking anyones insurance if OP stated he also did not have insurance and they didnt ask. Marina appears liable..they will settle out of court more than likely. OP may not recoup unless judge orders full entitlement to restoration. Land policy? read the fine print . You have a long road in front of you. good luck mate.

I agree. if the marina specifically claims that an insurance is needed it should be obliged to check if the boats are insured or not. In most marinas I have been (in Europe) the first thing they check are insurance papers.

But probably the OP would not come clean out of this because he had not insurance too. Anyway it is a clear case to be dealt on the courts of Justice not in internet.

[hellosailor]

"They made a reasonable attempt (in the legal sense) effort to verify he had insurance." Not really. It goes back to reasonable standards and due diligence.

Go to any car dealer and try to finance a car. They don't just ask you "How much do you make?" they run a credit check, AND now they commonly run an identity verification, also using an online service. They'll come back and ask you "Which of these streets did you live on?" "What color was your first car?" "Where were you born?" or other simple questions, to verify that you are probably you.

And if you give them a check for twenty grand, they'll call the bank or verify it online as well. they don't really care about what you signed on a paper. What you sign on the paper, is the basis for criminal fraud charges. Apply for a loan and sign a piece of paper saying you earn 100k when you really make 10k, and that's fraud, which the loan company may prosecute for if you don't pay up on time.

But the business you're dealing with? The marina can very easily call the insurer to verify that you have coverage. Some insurers will do the same thing the medical insurance industry does, they can let a "care provider" open a web page and check to see IF you are insured, and what the coverage is. It really is that simple: One phone call or web lookup, and they can see if the insurer knows you.

In this day and age, taking a piece of paper that anyone can print by themselves, is simply negligent. You can take my word on it, because I've got a piece of beautifully engraced parchment with a gold seal in the corner that says it is a royal warrant from Elizabeth Regina herself, her Imperial Brittanic Majesty, authorizing me to enter into treaties and make commercial dealings on her behalf. See? It's right on this piece of paper. (Ahuh.)

This is why the airport idiots ask for a federal "SecureID" in the US. Too many great fakes are too easily printed. Ask any kid who "really is 22!" when they show ID at a bar. Been that way for a very long time.