New Sails for a Beneteau 57

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Pacey16

Fxykty I am getting quotes for sails at the moment and will probably just have them made crosscut out of Fibercon AP. I have enquired with North to see what they would charge for 3Di endurance, would be interested to hear what type of laminate you are looking at and a rough cost in comparison to quality dacron

In NZ, North is quoting +50% from HydraNet tri radial to 3Di Endurance. Fibrecon is basically the same as HydraNet. Depending on the size of boat and the loads, I’m leery of cross cut panels in Polyester or Polyester/Dyneema mix without a heap of radial reinforcements at all the corners, including reefs. YMMV

From a couple of Asian lofts we’ve gotten quotes for a whole range of materials. Dacron is very inexpensive. HydraNet/Fibrecon in tri radial are about double the price of Dacron. Non-polyester laminates are another 30% more than HydraNet. Membranes are about the same as the laminates. All a third of the cost of NZ made sails.

We are looking seriously at membrane sails, with the material made in Italy and sails built in Asia.

[CarlF]

Has anyone had experience with Warp Drive for a tri-radial mainsail?

The claim is that it fills a hole between the high end Dacron (Marblehead) and laminates - and that long term performance is close to Hydranet but much less expensive.

Evidently the special weaving leaves the warp threads with no kink so you get much less stretch in the warp direction. Works well in the panels of a tri-radial.

It's woven so no delamination risk or mildew.

Warp-Drive™ — Challenge Sailcloth

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Our boat, which likely has slightly higher loads than yours, has 10 year old (50,000 miles roughly) Hydranet sails that were built in France with tri-radial panels. The main is fully battened with 6 battens, has a large roach and is 80 square metres. The jib is a self-tacking blade and is 35 square metres.

Both sails are badly stretched. The jib is in better shape, but the leach is hooked and there are some creases due to uneven stretching. The main is blown out between the battens. Both sails are suffering from rotted thread and webbing and need to be replaced prior to next offshore season in 6-8 months (assuming local COVID border closures relax slightly).

We will not be replacing with Hydranet: the material is too expensive and the designed shape does not last very long. The Dyneema threads are woven and as the weave straightens the cloth naturally stretches, regardless of the threads themselves. You may as well get pure Dacron sails and save the Hydranet premium. However, our Hydranet sails are very hard wearing and we have no worries about the cloth ripping.

For better performance and reasonable life (though likely not 10 years) we are ordering laminated sails in tri-radial cut with cruise features. Surprisingly, our local (New Zealand) North and Doyle lofts are not substantially more expensive than mail order sails from Asia, based on laminated materials. Hydranet (or off-brand so-called equivalent) and Dacron sails were substantially cheaper from the Asian lofts.

That's my recommendation.

The OP's boat has big sails, and the loads on sails go up disproportionately with size. If you are a keen sailor there is just no way to get good results out of woven sails in that size. This is one of the main reasons why ketches exist.

Woven sails include Hydranet; I can't imagine why someone would pay MORE for those than what you can get a good laminate sail for.

I have carbon/technora laminate sails made out of Bainbridge cloth, with dyneema taffeta on both sides. I had them made by a well-known Solent sailmaker. They were expensive, but about half the cost of what North Sails quoted me for similar sails (£24 000 just for the mainsail, IIRC). I bought them for performance (sick of trying to get upwind with blown-out Dacron sails) but have been absolutely astonished by their durability. They are now 5 years old and I have I guess 20,000 miles on them and they are still nearly like new, with no signs of chafe (I HIGHLY recommend the dyneema tafetta), not the slightest sign of delamination, no mildew. The sailmaker told me that they would last at least 10 years, even sailing a lot as I do -- I didn't believe him. But now I will be surprised if I don't get 15 out of them. I don't expect to ever buy sails again for this boat. I expected to spend more for the sake of performance, but if they last twice as long as Dacron sails do, then it's not actually even more expensive.

For a big boat with single mast, I wouldn't even look at anything but laminate sails.

And might I add that good sails is the best money by far you can spend on your boat -- if you love to sail. Good sails totally change the whole experience -- suddenly you can shape them, suddenly your sail controls actually do something. It opens up whole new horizons in sailing. I'll never go back to woven sails.