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theonecalledtom · 23-10-2008, 20:34

As someone who has followed this from the very begining it has been an excellent source of thought. The continued debate is proving instructional and helping me gain further understanding beyond what my current reading (including storm tactics) and experience levels have provided.

One day I will need to carry out the tactics being discussed here and this conversation is helping me, and hopefully others, understand some of the options still available while the boat floats.

Thank you!

SelkirkWind · 23-10-2008, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

At the point where the skipper called for rescue, he needed rest, a hot meal and a way to ride out a weather system. The world would have been a different place 36 hours later.

Armchair quarterbacking like we do we sometimes forget the physical and environmental conditions the skipper is in. How he got there is another matter. Sleep deprived in 35kts and 15 foot seas I have trouble standing on my boat much less effecting complex repairs over the stern.

Well said! This discussion is supposed to be about other options for our personal toolbags. Ronnie asked his questions, read our opinions and made his decisions. I respect him for that. The real issue is what have we learned in terms of encouragement versus education and preparation so that the next "hypothetical case" benefits from Ronnie and our experience.

Pelagic · 23-10-2008, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

At the point where the skipper called for rescue, he needed rest, a hot meal and a way to ride out a weather system.

Sleep deprived in 35kts and 15 foot seas I have trouble standing on my boat much less effecting complex repairs over the stern.

That is another important point to reinforce Dan.

I have done a lot of heavy weather offshore sailing and a key lesson is that you have to relieve the stress not only from the boat but also the Crew.

Especially for a single-hander….. maintaining your energy levels is critical.

Early on at the first sign of a steering problem…..if Ronnie had just towed a long warp off the stern quarter, put up a little storm jib to keep the boat drifting downwind on a very broad reach, he could have secured himself down below, got some much needed rest with a relatively gentle motion.

Sleeping on the problem would probably have given him the energy and time to find a solution when the weather moderated.

ronniesimpson · 23-10-2008, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

It is completely wrong for Ronnie to say each, and everyone of us would have left our boat if we were in his situation. I think not. We wouldn't be having anything close to this discussion if he had not promoted himself here. He could have just slipped his lines, and did his thing.

I praise him for his thick skin, and honesty. I believe he should get another boat, and if he does. I am sure this time he will do his diligent homework, and get in some sailing time. He is a much smarter man now, and I would like to see him finish what he set out to accomplish. So if you go back, and read what I have posted you will know I am on Ronnie's side, but I am not going to sugar coat anything. Allowing him to believe there was no other options is doing him no service at all. He needs blatant honesty. It doesn't have to be said cruely, but he needs the honesty, and get on with finishing his goal......i2f

What he said. +1

No, seriously, it was wrong of me to say that most, if not everyone would have abandoned boat in my situation. I admit i was wrong, shouldn't have said that. sorry.

Yes, I learned a million and one lessons from this whole experience, and will apply those lessons learned to any of my future ventures in water sailing">blue water sailing.

And again, yes, I fully intend to acquire another boat and continue my voyage around the world. It may be a few months from now, though, as my current financial situation does not allow me to simply purchase a boat and re-outfit it for extended cruising. I am going to be free lance writing for a couple of months, submitting articles and feature stories to several magazines around the world. Both sailing related and not sailing related. My brother and I have made some business and marketing contacts, and we are seeking future financing, with a handful of potential deals on the table. The most promising looks to be a book deal with enough future royalties being advanced to me, to purchase another boat and set sail. Only time will tell what happens in the future, though.

Talbot · 23-10-2008, 23:20

Quote:

Relief of sleep deprivation is another important point to reinforce Dan.

Not just another, but probably the MOST IMPORTANT.

Especially when you are inexperienced.

ronniesimpson · 23-10-2008, 23:26

it's already been said nine times, but there is a lot of good info and knowledge being tossed around in here. thanks to everyone for their inputs. i will definitely read this thread about 4 times over, start to finish, before i set sail again, making sure that i have the equipment and knowledge to work through this kind of situation should it ever happen again.

Talbot · 23-10-2008, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniesimpson

i will definitely read this thread about 4 times over, start to finish, before i set sail again, making sure that i have the equipment and knowledge to work through this kind of situation should it ever happen again.

There are also references to three good books, which will really help the preparation.

Adlard Coles, Heavy Weather sailing
Pardys, Storm Tactics
Drag Device Database

and read through the whole of the Jordan series drogue site including the USCG report.

BlueWaterSail · 24-10-2008, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniesimpson

it's already been said nine times, but there is a lot of good info and knowledge being tossed around in here. thanks to everyone for their inputs. i will definitely read this thread about 4 times over, start to finish, before i set sail again, making sure that i have the equipment and knowledge to work through this kind of situation should it ever happen again.

OK Ronnie Simpson, I was a little hard on you.

But it was for a reason - I wanted you to understand that preparedness is born from humility, not confidence.

I think you got it.

Good luck in your travels.

BWS

**Wotname** · 24-10-2008, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wotname

.........
I might not like him or agree with him and I certainly would still believe his actions on this caper were foolish but that does not stop me from respecting him as a person and (now) a sailor - fellow brother of the sea. He has earned his seat at the sailors bar. What happens next is up to Ronnie. Will he be wiser? At this stage I think it is only fair to say that we will have to wait to find out. Time will time if he will get promoted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronniesimpson

it's already been said nine times, but there is a lot of good info and knowledge being tossed around in here. thanks to everyone for their inputs. i will definitely read this thread about 4 times over, start to finish, before i set sail again, making sure that i have the equipment and knowledge to work through this kind of situation should it ever happen again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueWaterSail

OK Ronnie Simpson, I was a little hard on you.

But it was for a reason - I wanted you to understand that preparedness is born from humility, not confidence.

I think you got it.

Good luck in your travels.

BWS

Please excuse my indulgence of re-quoting myself but as that post was back around page 5 or 6, I feel it is justified

.

I am thinking that ordinary seaman Ronnie will make able seaman if he follows through on his commitment. OK it took 15 pages on CF and the loss of his boat but I reckon there is a good chance he will be the one offering his knowledge and hard won experience in the years to come.

I for one will look forward to an expectation of learning from him in the future.

Ronnie, please bear with me for one further piece of advice:

Real learning and real experience takes much longer than a young person expects. Don't expect to be able to know everything in the next few years, it really does take longer than that but you know you have made it when the day comes when you realize you will never know everything and yet you decide to still keep on learning just for the hell of it.

A good student will always exceed his master.

And a round of applause please to all of you who has taken the time and effort to persevere in being constructively critical for a stranger even when it appeared to fall on deaf ears.

imagine2frolic · 24-10-2008, 05:50

:cubalibre.....SALUD!!!!!!!

**Wotname** · 24-10-2008, 07:30

My thoughts:
1. Ronnie is an OK (bloke, guy, dude,...) - insert your own idiom of choice!

2. Self steering is a critical system when single / short handing.

3. Critical systems require redundancy or at least the proven ability to repair / replace the system. Redundancy of a windvane could be an autopilot (with associated electrical capacity) or proven ability to rig sheets to tiller (or emergency tiller on wheel steering systems).

4. If a critical system fails (with no redundancy or proven repair ability), one must proceed to the nearest repair facility regardless of hardship / cost.

5. Loss of rudder authority is a major defect and while not immediately life threatening does put a vessel at considerable risk especially if weather deteriorates. If not repairable, some way of steering the boat must be jury rigged. While sail balance is critical in this instance, sail balance should be part of everyday sailing when using a self steering system.

Jury rigged steering should be experimented with and practiced in non-threatening situations. It should be experimented with rudder locked fore and aft, with rudder swinging freely and rudder jammed hard over.

Types of jury rigged steering will almost certainly be dependent on the degree of weather experienced.

6. The importance of being able to control how of the boat lies to the sea when not under way. i.e. being able heave to, maintain head to wind etc. This allows for rest and food and limits damage from heavy seas.

All boats are different in this respect so actuate data may not be able to suit your boat, sail and weather configuration; therefore paramount to experiment and practice in varying weather conditions with your own boat. See what works and why. Read widely and be prepared to try things that others disagree with. Practice in 10 /15 kts then 20/25 kts, note the differences and extrapolate . If possible practice in heavier winds and varying sea states. Next time you are returning from a day sail and the afternoon sea breeze kicks up to 20/25 kts, spend an hour heaving to or deploying drogues or what have you.

Once you know how well your boat heaves to, try doing it without any rudder authority, with the rudder free, locked fore and aft, locked hard over.

I have never tried to heave to a boat without some rudder authority (or with a broken rudder) nor have I read of any way to do it but I will be trying it now!

7. The importance of knowing these techniques before departing on a long passage rather than trying to learn under difficult conditions when fatigue, hunger, sea-sickness and fear incapacitates you.

Enough for now

.

rtbates · 24-10-2008, 07:30

I suppose that advertising his stunt to the world has possibly put him in a position where he feels compelled to keep at it till he either gets it done or dies trying. What I'm afraid he has no clue about is that the little blow he encountered on the way to Hawaii was just that a little blow.

His final line says it all, "Watch our progress as two twenty-something brothers sail around the world, and film it!
www.openbluehorizon.com "

he's sailing for all the wrong reasons. He's hoping it will make him famous.