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jimbunyard · 31-05-2018, 18:32

From your second set of pictures, I'd say you're not screwed at all; the wooden bulkheads don't look delaminated from the fiberglass hull tabbing anywhere to me. There doesn't appear to be any sign of motion in any of them, but to be sure, if you can get a knife blade between any of the fiberglass tabbing and the wood of the bulkhead that has to be repaired.

As to what caused the floor gaps, could be anything from floor sag to the boat's shape adjusting to the differing forces when first splashed as compared to when the interior was fabricated (if it was in fact finished out on land). On the same note, as previously advised, don't do any serious rig or 'panting rod' tensioning on land; the place to make such adjustments is where the boat will be operating.

As for the gold standard for a mast step, especially if it is being held down by a keel nut, would be a stainless (excepting, perhaps, some exotic metal) base with the tension rod attachment point incorporated into it, a G10 spacer insulating the mast from the stainless base, and a large drainage feature provided. This is something that you would likely be well rewarded to search out a very good fabricator, from both economic and functionality standpoints; a 'marine specialist' might have an advantage here, but that is not absolutely the case.

er9 · 31-05-2018, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

From your second set of pictures, .

thanks Jim...much appreciate all the input. i have a lot to absorb over the next month or two before i start the restoration.

fortunately my boat builder tabbed both sides of every bulkhead. the tabbing is nice and thick, maybe 3/16" of roving. its probably earning its pay right now holding everything together. its all completely sealed to the bulkhead. i have to assume the backside tabbing is in similar condition although i cant see 90% of it. i was considering putting stainless lag screws through the existing tabbing every four inches or so into the bulkhead once i get everything settled back in place.

we do have some good fabricators here in greater los angeles area. i think i'm going to design the base myself in AutoCad at have a pro critique it for me before sending it to the fabricator. Doesn't really seem all that complicated to design but the fabrication part is way beyond my skills. i need to get the mast down first though.

noted on doing the adjustments in the water. that seems to be the overwhelming consensus.

**JPA Cate** · 01-06-2018, 02:44

er9,

You mentioned the "Catalina Smile". Well, we had this mysterious leak that seemed to come from the aftmost keel bolt. As it happens, the builder did not manage the transition from cored hull to aft end of keel well, and the "subfloor" I mentioned was installed specifically to support the aftmost end of the fin keel. It worked way better than the foam, and interestingly, it stopped a strange creaky "gronk" noise that we had used to have, running downwind in large seas. The hull had to have been flexing a fair wee bit, and the repair stopped all that. (Yes, I found it scary, but here I am, telling the tale! ;-)

Ann

**Don C L** · 01-06-2018, 09:41

I think I mentioned this somewhere else but the maxi I crewed on once ages ago had a Kevlar honeycomb cored hull that would flex considerably going upwind. You could lift the cabin sole boards and watch the hull, stringers and all, flex 2 or 3 inches maybe more, can’t recall exactly, but it certainly got our attention. In fact the metal frames holding the sole would cut into the stringers as they got banged up. When this was pointed out to the skipper he just pondered it for a moment and said, don’t worry about it, put the board back.
This brought back a memory of a really good ol river guide friend who when faced with a potentially unusual, threatening or hazardous situation he would regularly respond, “its supposed to be like that.” With that we would all relax and things went just fine.

er9 · 01-06-2018, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don C L

I think I mentioned this somewhere else but the maxi I crewed on once ages ago had a Kevlar honeycomb cored hull that would flex considerably going upwind. You could lift the cabin sole boards and watch the hull, stringers and all, flex 2 or 3 inches maybe more, can’t recall exactly, but it certainly got our attention. In fact the metal frames holding the sole would cut into the stringers as they got banged up. When this was pointed out to the skipper he just pondered it for a moment and said, don’t worry about it, put the board back.
This brought back a memory of a really good ol river guide friend who when faced with a potentially unusual, threatening or hazardous situation he would regularly respond, “its supposed to be like that.” With that we would all relax and things went just fine.

i had to laugh at this one it really cracked me up and got me thinking....maybe my problem is my floorboards are just sinking because iv'e been eating and drinking way too much and i'm just getting to fat for my old teak and holly floor.

that really would explain a lot. neglected mast step because of regular intoxication lead to breaking panting bar. spilled booze on cabin floor leading to advanced corrosion of mast step. tabbing still intact on bulkhead because my fatso feet dont walk on it. sagging floor because my fatso ass does....jeesh finally mystery solved.

Cadence · 01-06-2018, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by er9

i had to laugh at this one it really cracked me up and got me thinking....maybe my problem is my floorboards are just sinking because iv'e been eating and drinking way too much and i'm just getting to fat for my old teak and holly floor.

that really would explain a lot. neglected mast step because of regular intoxication lead to breaking panting bar. spilled booze on cabin floor leading to advanced corrosion of mast step. tabbing still intact on bulkhead because my fatso feet dont walk on it. sagging floor because my fatso ass does....jeesh finally mystery solved.

Loved the humor!

old frog · 01-06-2018, 13:16

ER9, It reads that you have questions & concerns about the project. If the other surveyor recommendations don't work out, Mike Kaufman, NA, mechanical engineer, & very experienced Rec. Marine surveyor is retired in that area. It might be worth contacting him in the event for a consultation.

er9 · 01-06-2018, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by old frog

ER9, It reads that you have questions & concerns about the project. If the other surveyor recommendations don't work out, Mike Kaufman, NA, mechanical engineer, & very experienced Rec. Marine surveyor is retired in that area. It might be worth contacting him in the event for a consultation.

hey thanks Old Frog. i really appreciate the reference. i doubt i can afford to have him drive up from san marcos but did get a local reference for a surveyor in my area from his website.

well i know that i absolutely have to replace my mast step and get that panting rod re-installed. what i dont know for sure is if that is the complete cause of my problem or if there is something my inexperienced eyes are missing. would definately like to get other experienced eyes to have a closer look but i dont have endless amounts of money to throw at this.

trying to carefully weigh my options within the constrains of my budget. i'm tempted to just redo the step, re-attach the panting rod and see where i end up and if it fixes the problem.

the hard part for me isn't doing the work but deciding how far i can afford to go with the funds i have.

Cadence · 01-06-2018, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by er9

hey thanks Old Frog. i really appreciate the reference. i doubt i can afford to have him drive up from san marcos but did get a local reference for a surveyor in my area from his website.

well i know that i absolutely have to replace my mast step and get that panting rod re-installed. what i dont know for sure is if that is the complete cause of my problem or if there is something my inexperienced eyes are missing. would definately like to get other experienced eyes to have a closer look but i dont have endless amounts of money to throw at this.

trying to carefully weigh my options within the constrains of my budget. i'm tempted to just redo the step, re-attach the panting rod and see where i end up and if it fixes the problem.

the hard part for me isn't doing the work but deciding how far i can afford to go with the funds i have.

Sounds like a good choice. A lot of overthinking seems to be posted.

old frog · 01-06-2018, 14:58

Again, from the outside looking in: Remember your boat is 38 years old & movement of the type you describe is not uncommon.

It reads that you are on the correct path with fixing the mast step & panting rod. Inspect the other things while you are in the area, but remember the old adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Pay attention to dissimilar metals, and aluminum's susceptibility to poetic corrosion. Be wary of "stainless" bolts in oxygen starved areas. While it takes a bit more (crane) time when stepping the mast, take the time & opportunity to get a proper fit & compatible between the hast heel & step.

Hopefully, the surveyor will be able to refer you to a capable boat wright that can assist you at an affordable price.

Again, good luck within.

RobinScurr · 02-06-2018, 08:55

My 1981 S2 11.0 also has a keel stepped mast and a panting rod. The rod was loose when I bought the boat, so I tightened it. My question is, how tight is tight enough??