Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

[Fore and Aft]

Good question thomm225, a lot of boats I survey have at least one frozen seacock and often the owner replaces them all so that way there should be no more failures until the yacht is slipped for its annual antifoul. Personally I like the seacocks on my toilet and engine to open and close easily and if one fails I would have to possibly slip the boat to replace it. So that means a $60 part has now cost me $500 because I was to cheap to do the job properly in the first place. I know you can change a seacock in the water using a diver but if that skin fitting moves at all then you have to slip the boat anyway and now you have added the cost of a diver as well. Also some of my seacocks I have screwed tight onto the skin fitting first then tightened the skin fitting nut last so I have the seacock handle in the correct posisition.
Cheers

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Good question thomm225, a lot of boats I survey have at least one frozen seacock and often the owner replaces them all so that way there should be no more failures until the yacht is slipped for its annual antifoul. Personally I like the seacocks on my toilet and engine to open and close easily and if one fails I would have to possibly slip the boat to replace it. So that means a $60 part has now cost me $500 because I was to cheap to do the job properly in the first place. I know you can change a seacock in the water using a diver but if that skin fitting moves at all then you have to slip the boat anyway and now you have added the cost of a diver as well. Also some of my seacocks I have screwed tight onto the skin fitting first then tightened the skin fitting nut last so I have the seacock handle in the correct posisition.
Cheers

Good info thanks.

My seacocks will never need to be opened again while I own this boat.

My head is a glorified porta potty that used to be plumbed in to a Y valve but it smelled so I cut off all the bad hoses and blocked the rest.

Now I empty it at a facility. Usually Cobb's across the creek

If I do cruise this boat in the future, I'll dump 3 miles plus offshore in the ocean or buy and install a composting head

The sink didn't drain well in the first place so I wash dishes etc in the cockpit and rinse with fresh water.

I replaced the diesel with an outboard.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by navdi

Q: why do tapered ones get such a bad rep? My boat has the Spartan tapered metal-on-metal kind and they are still working after 32 years of neglected use, why are ball valves considered better? (it's an honest question, not trying to start an argument)

Thanks.

I would like to know the answer to that also. Maybe the ball valves are cheaper to just replace once you get them switched over from the tapered kind.
The only first hand knowledge I have heard is that an owner attempted to replace the tapered kind and they were found to be deteriorated and there was no choice on what to do.

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Good info thanks.

My seacocks will never need to be opened again while I own this boat.

My head is a glorified porta potty that used to be plumbed in to a Y valve but it smelled so I cut off all the bad hoses and blocked the rest.

Now I empty it at a facility. Usually Cobb's across the creek

If I do cruise this boat in the future, I'll dump 3 miles plus offshore in the ocean or buy and install a composting head

The sink didn't drain well in the first place so I wash dishes etc in the cockpit and rinse with fresh water.

I replaced the diesel with an outboard.

Did you fill and seal all the thru-hulls?

[tizzlizz27]

In my case, frozen sea cocks & thru hull fiberglass cracks came out on the survey when I bought my vessel a few months ago. The survey was submitted to the insurance company (BoatsUS) & they only insured me for Port Risk until the sea cocks & other thru hulls were repaired. My vessel has been sitting for nearly two years so no surprise. I'm doing a haul-out, the sea cocks are bronze but need to be refitted with plates to the hulls, but the SC themselves should be fine. I have no issue with this. I would think the SC should be exercised to be open/closed in working condition, even tho they'll be closed most of the time, IMO. My inclination on a 'new' older boat is to take care of the components for sea worthiness - clean hull/props, solid battery banks & charger, smooth coolant/exhaust, engine hoses/clamps/filters.

[Michael Pope]

I used to sell the ball valves so feel a a small guilt here . Theoretically The Ball valve is better as the moving part is suspended (squeezed! ) between two (Generally glass filled Teflon) plastic seals So no electrolytic action, Muy Bueno Notso good is that 90% of them are built for industrial service where they will be used often and replaced often so do not have the thickness of metal available in old style plug valves so porous corrosion and mechanical damage are a danger. Also many of them have steel handles that rust off in a year??? Very Bad . Be very picky when you buy them . The real McKoy of embarrassment is when you are at sea by yourself and the Valve just fell apart when you tried to shut it OFF !! I Know!! Mike P

[Poche]

Originally Posted by Michael Pope

I used to sell the ball valves so feel a a small guilt here . Theoretically The Ball valve is better as the moving part is suspended (squeezed! ) between two (Generally glass filled Teflon) plastic seals So no electrolytic action, Muy Bueno Notso good is that 90% of them are built for industrial service where they will be used often and replaced often so do not have the thickness of metal available in old style plug valves so porous corrosion and mechanical damage are a danger.

I kind of suspected this as a weakness of ball valves. How can a teflon coating adhere and last on a metallic surface for a great deal of time? Especially if they get closed every time you leave the boat which I think is a good idea.
I'm hoping once I get my original valves serviced I can do the regular opening and closing when I leave the boat to keep them free.

[Mike Banks]

Bronze thru-hulls can become porous over long periods of time, Tufnel, nylon and polypropylene and polyethylene valves can be smashed by logs scraping along the hull.

Stainless steel I would not be using below water, nor brass either.
.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by navdi

Did you fill and seal all the thru-hulls?

Nope.

When I bought the boat in 2011, I opened them. Then closed the ones I didn't use.

Now the diesel is out. I don't use the sink, and I empty the head at the facility so all thru hulls are closed

I did check them again though last night, and they looked like they always do.(totally dry with no buildup or strange color) I even tapped them a bit with a wooden plug.

The cockpit thru hull hoses are very thick and strong and they are at least 15 years old to include the PO's cruise to Florida, 5 years on the hard, then my ownership from 2011


I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some of that Emergency Stop Leak Sealant onboard in case a thru hull etc did become loose and start leaking while offshore. With that and other items a leak may be able to be brought under control

[Lepke]

My seacocks are mostly original from 1942. Probably better made than yacht seacocks. When out of the water I disassemble, clean and grease. Ones I'm not using. I drive in a wood plug. To test the metal I use a punch & hammer and tap the outside flange to see if I can break off a piece. Since I have a wood boat, I also test the strut bolts that way.
I've never understood tossing away perfectly good seacocks.

[Exile]

I have 14(!) below-waterline Spartan (bronze tapered ball) seacocks, and one bronze Groco with a teflon insert.

The downside to the Spartan's is that they need to be removed & greased (sometimes lapped) every year or two upon haulout or they will eventually become inoperable. The upside is that, with proper maintenance, I'm told they will outlast the boat itself. Spartan sells an inexpensive kit for this servicing which includes their preferred grease & lapping compound, along with a handy wrench.

The upside to the Groco is that the teflon apparently negates the need for routine servicing, but I'm told it will eventually get scored and start to leak. The only remedy, as far as I'm aware that is, is replacement. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

As mentioned, they all require regular "exercising" to keep them moving freely.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by navdi

Q: why do tapered ones get such a bad rep? My boat has the Spartan tapered metal-on-metal kind and they are still working after 32 years of neglected use, why are ball valves considered better? (it's an honest question, not trying to start an argument)

Thanks.

If you are referring to the threads, then I can do no better than point out this site created by CF memeber Mainesail. It's all scary but half way down is the bit about threads.

https://marinehowto.com/seacock-thru-hull-primer/

[Pegu Club]

If your seacocks don’t work/move, and your hoses are old, you are taking in my opinion unnecessary risks, but that is only my opinion, we are after all our own captains of our vessels. If you are entertaining actual cruising, being in the middle of essentially nowhere with a seacock that has decided not to do it’s job any further, well you’re kinda screwed at that point. The old saying, keep the water on the outside comes to mind. I guess we all refit our boats to the degree that makes us comfortable, and if you are comfortable with the condition of your equipment then you’re good. If you do decide to go cruising enjoy, it is a rare pleasure most will never know.

Ps. imo go with Groco bronze seacocks and thru-hulls, treated correctly they will last many many years.

Fair winds,

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by navdi

Q: why do tapered ones get such a bad rep? My boat has the Spartan tapered metal-on-metal kind and they are still working after 32 years of neglected use, why are ball valves considered better? (it's an honest question, not trying to start an argument)



Thanks.

Im my case, we only haul the boat at a 3-5 year interval. So I’m already behind the curve on the required maintenance. Also my case, the PO or POs had failed to maintain the tapered plugs at all, so I had severe pitting on some of the smaller ones.

8 years ago I replaced three of the 3/4” tapered plug seacocks with Groco flange adapters and groco ball valves. Just in the last two weeks I finally replaced the three 1-1/2” tapered plugs with flange adapters and ball valves.

My reasoning was thus. I can spend a lot of time now pulling plugs and lapping in an impossible hole. Or I can spend the same time and replace the old with flange adapters and ball valves that only require an occasional shot of grease and can be readily replaced when damaged.

If we hauled annually for months I’d stick with the traditional serviceable plug valves. But for quite a few applications technology has changed (better or worse is your call). In our use case the tapered plugs were no longer the best choice.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

If your seacocks don’t work/move, and your hoses are old, you are taking in my opinion unnecessary risks, but that is only my opinion, we are after all our own captains of our vessels. If you are entertaining actual cruising, being in the middle of essentially nowhere with a seacock that has decided not to do it’s job any further, well you’re kinda screwed at that point. The old saying, keep the water on the outside comes to mind. I guess we all refit our boats to the degree that makes us comfortable, and if you are comfortable with the condition of your equipment then you’re good. If you do decide to go cruising enjoy, it is a rare pleasure most will never know.

Ps. imo go with Groco bronze seacocks and thru-hulls, treated correctly they will last many many years.

Fair winds,

How about if they are all closed and tight fitting and are not opened anymore?

Some (of mine) don't have hoses attached at all or the hose is cut off and capped.

I've seen one boat sink (at the dock) with a bad hose on a thru hull and another nearly do so while out day sailing.

The second boat had a new owner and he was just excited to be a boat owner. He didn't have much experience with boats