Putting LEDs into old nav light housings

[Bycrick]

"Legal" nav lights. Nobody will come out and see if your's are legal. In the overwhelming number of instances, if somebody runs into you, nobody will care.

But I can think of two cases where there were years of litigation.

In both cases, a smaller, faster boat ran into an anchored boat at high speed in the dark. In one case, it killed someone on the victim's boat. In the second case, a passenger in the faster boat was killed.

In both cases, the boat that ran into the anchored boat went to GREAT lengths to make the case that the target boat was not "properly lighted" and therefore the operator of the boat that hit them wasn’t at fault.

If you use compliant nav lights, the burden of proof is on the guy that hit you. He has to prove that they weren’t installed correctly or weren’t turned on.

If your lights are home-brewed, then the burden of proof is on you.

[carstendenmark]

@ Spot :
The extra luminiscent bulbs is not a modification to the layout.
Just an enhancement of the brightness.
The COLREGS spec is a brightness of min. 2 NM when we're talking less than 40' boats, which we both belong to. If more bright, then no objection to the rules.

If you see the picture no. 3 from left in your attachment, I would like to "bend" the rules, when I am motoring.
Instead of a fixed stern light and a fixed masthead light (both white), I will use my existing lower port/starboard lights in conjunction with the white 360 deg. anchor light in the mast top (the LED anchor light feature of the Hella top light).

225+135=360 deg's white light.
This is accepted on powerboats, so it should be same for a sailboat at "steaming" (means motoring), in my world.
Just because we, as sailboats, have a mast, should not require that we are forced to make two separate lights, when we're just motoring !
Actually, I think it is better with the lamp at the mast top, as it may not be possible to see the mast head light, when motorsailing with the jib sail set.
It might cover the light from the lamp...

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

"Legal" nav lights. Nobody will come out and see if your's are legal. In the overwhelming number of instances, if somebody runs into you, nobody will care.

But I can think of two cases where there were years of litigation.

In both cases, a smaller, faster boat ran into an anchored boat at high speed in the dark. In one case, it killed someone on the victim's boat. In the second case, a passenger in the faster boat was killed.

In both cases, the boat that ran into the anchored boat went to GREAT lengths to make the case that the target boat was not "properly lighted" and therefore the operator of the boat that hit them wasn’t at fault.

If you use compliant nav lights, the burden of proof is on the guy that hit you. He has to prove that they weren’t installed correctly or weren’t turned on.

If your lights are home-brewed, then the burden of proof is on you.

Sorry sir - these are nonsense.

The hitting vessel is always the responsible party if the victim was on anchor/mooring, regardless any light. Poor visibility is never an excuse any marine court will consider.

Not surprising those two cases were of motor boats operators. For that sailors and responsible boaters are usually well trained in seamanship, have eyes, radar and usually some brain.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by carstendenmark

@ Spot :
The extra luminiscent bulbs is not a modification to the layout.
Just an enhancement of the brightness.
The COLREGS spec is a brightness of min. 2 NM when we're talking less than 40' boats, which we both belong to. If more bright, then no objection to the rules.

If you see the picture no. 3 from left in your attachment, I would like to "bend" the rules, when I am motoring.
Instead of a fixed stern light and a fixed masthead light (both white), I will use my existing lower port/starboard lights in conjunction with the white 360 deg. anchor light in the mast top (the LED anchor light feature of the Hella top light).

225+135=360 deg's white light.
This is accepted on powerboats, so it should be same for a sailboat at "steaming" (means motoring), in my world.
Just because we, as sailboats, have a mast, should not require that we are forced to make two separate lights, when we're just motoring !
Actually, I think it is better with the lamp at the mast top, as it may not be possible to see the mast head light, when motorsailing with the jib sail set.
It might cover the light from the lamp...

Thanks Carsten, I appreciate your thoughts. My boat came with generic 1970's lighting for an inland motorboat and a previous owner made a wooden bracket for the steaming light. As it was daysailed, an anchor light was never installed. I hope to add an anchor light, possibly on a pole going to the steaming light bracket. My rig is fractional so I have about a meter (3 feet) free above the forestay/jib. The masthead is pretty small, I have had thoughts to redesign it a little bigger and add better places for lights, VHF antenna, and maybe even a spinnaker halyard.

[Bycrick]

I’m not sure that Spot is even bending the rules. The all—around white light meets the requirement for a stern light, and the requirement for a white masthead light above the two sidelights. But only when motoring. Under sail, he shouldn’t show the white light forward.

[Bycrick]

As for the "hitting vessel is always responsible" suggestion, look up the collision in the med involving CLS Virginia. As always, when it comes to law, the answer is "it depends."

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

I’m not sure that Spot is even bending the rules. The all—around white light meets the requirement for a stern light, and the requirement for a white masthead light above the two sidelights. But only when motoring. Under sail, he shouldn’t show the white light forward.

Byrick, thanks for the comments. The same article that had the pictures from before uses this setup as a non-recommended example. On my boat I have anchor-off-navigation as a single switch, mostly to save space but also to help organize the 'logic' of having the right things on at the same time. To be honest, I would say the boat in the photo needs better sidelights


http://cruising.coastalboating.net--> Day Shapes and Night Lights

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Spot

The same article that had the pictures from before uses this setup as a non-recommended example. On my boat I have anchor-off-navigation as a single switch, mostly to save space but also to help organize the 'logic' of having the right things on at the same time. To be honest, I would say the boat in the photo needs better sidelights

Using the anchor light as a combined steaming and stern light is an allowed configuration for vessels under 12 m. What the picture has that's incorrect is the stern light on as well. Cover that and the configuration is valid.

[Spot]

Thanks Requiem for the clarification.

[carstendenmark]

Yes, thank you, requiem !

Based on this information :
A solution for yachts under 12 meter (40') could then be to mount a 3-light LED light (like the Hella Trio I mentioned above) in the mast top for sail-sailing, and use the port/starboard running lights (near the hull deck) in conjunction with the anchor light (in the Trio) when motorsailing.

Existing 135 deg. stern light and 225 deg. masthead light can (should !) be removed.

A switch : "off/motor/sail/anchor" to activate, AND a display in the cockpit that shows the actual setting (small LED's or like).
This will be necessary, because you can't see the light of any of the navigation lights from the cockpit anymore.

For motoring electric yachts, which does not make any power during night, there are approved LED lights like the Hella Bi-Colour or similar.
In either configuration (motoring or sailing), the power consumption will be less than 4W.

Please comment :-)