Questions to ask a builder

[unlimited]

What are some questions you would ask a builder when considering them for a semi-custom boat/cat (build process, layers, etc)? For example, Gunboat, HH Catamarans, Balance, Kinetic Catamarans, Outremer, etc.

[Chotu]

Having built a similar boat to these types, I’d say you want to ask what materials they are using. Who the designer is. Check reputation of the designer. Ask about the production process and get a tour if possible.

MAKE SURE THEY WILL STAY SOLVENT UNTIL YOUR BOAT IS COMPLETE (gunboat)

Most importantly, get to the boat shows and thoroughly inspect their work on a sistership. Ask the owner what problems they’ve had and find online complaints. Focus on things the builder is responsible for. Don’t worry about items like refrigerator malfunction or something. You can always just note that and request a different model.

Then ask the builder how they are remedying any problems you uncover.

Everything else can be fixed in shakedown. And there will always be some problems. It’s a boat.

The only real threat is the threat of insolvency. They all want to produce a good boat. They aren’t always shrewd business people.

Also: they should have a process to go through for selecting everything, rigging, etc etc

[Snore]

Get a performance bond?

My pet peeve-- tell them to use different colors for the lines!! Aside from the port jib sheet- DONT use any line with a red pattern. A red pattern is almost impossible to distinguish at night with a red headlamp. Yes I know this sounds petty, but after spending $1-$2million on a yacht, it should be dang near perfect.

Also line sizing, 90% of the cats I get on have job sheets that show signs of being used above their rated capacity.

Finally, bring your OWN surveyor with you to accept the vessel. Most are wired weird. Can't tell you how many times I have turned off the 'Nav Inst' breaker, only to find that the MFD is still on.

[Shrew]

Do you know what are good materials and bad materials?

Do you know what is a good layup schedule vs a poor one??

Good vs poor building techniques?

Will those answers you get allow you to make sound judgements and decisions?

[Cheechako]

If the hull is cored: What is done at through hull locations? Core tapered back and solid glass at the fitting? Is the solid glass reinforced to be thicker than the normal skin?

How is the hull made? Is it vacuum bagged to infuse the core? How does the builder ensure no delamination/ lack of bond of core to skin?

What are the rudders filled with? How do you prevent water intrusion into the rudder?

Will interior spaces like inside cabinets, under berths and settees have the fiberglass smooth and finished?

What are the tanks made of?

Can you post a bond and agree to a performance contract? Will you agree to a penalty for late delivery? :>) (none of them will do that!) But seriously, boat builders go out of business regularly. You have a lot at risk rather than just buying a stock boat.

It happened to me on a custom boat build. I managed to get the boat eventually and finished it myself. I went through all that for some interior changes. What I learned is that a boat interior is like a balloon, you squeeze it on one end, it bulges on the other. There is seldom much gain in a custom build, you can live with what most people prefer and go sailing now!

[roryboy]

If you are going to have a vessel built in China, you need to hire a construction surveyor in China. A professional, who is beholding only to you and communicates directly to you and gives oversite on the construction of the vessel. There are people in China that do this for a living.

[Allied39]

I would ask them if they know what a vacuum cleaner is, do they know how one works and if they know how one should be utilized in making sure that the vessels they build are not full of fiberglass dust.

Back in 05-07 when 47 bendy toys were selling like hotcakes I had several customers who had them. I would estimate I removed easily two 5 gallon buckets of fiberglass dust from each boat from behind access panels etc.

Not impressive.

[dannc]

Along the lines of the company's solvency.

• What happens if the owner dies or is incapacitated?
• What is the financial status of the firm? Might have to do some digging to verify.
• If the build is in a foreign country, how will legal issues be handled?
  • Are you comfortable with the legal system in the country?
  • Are there political or economic issues in the country that could be an issue? (The buyer should know this before choosing the builder)
  • Are you comfortable with the country's culture and language?
• How will transfer of the boat ownership take place?
• What is the payment schedule?
• Do you hold back a percentage until the problems are fixed after a shakedown cruise?
• How will repairs be handled in the future?
  • Who pays and where will the repairs be done?
  • If one has to return to the builder's country, how expensive and difficult is the process?
• Are subcontractors installing systems(engine, navigation, electrical, etc), and if so, who is responsible for their work?
• What are the expenses and procedures to export the boat.(Assuming the build is in a foreign country)
• Will the builder allow access to a buyer's representative?
• How will issues found during the build be resolved?
• Is the buyer liable for taxes or other national fees.

I am sure there are more questions but that is all I could think of quickly.

From a build perspective, other have hit on some things, but it really depends on what you want in a boat.

We would want information on:

• Water tight compartments
• Hull and deck scantlings
  • Not really interesting in cats but I would be asking questions on the structure joining the hulls as well as the hulls.
• Rudder and rudder stock construction
• Wire used in electrical wiring.
• Location of DC and AC wiring.
• Ease of access to plumbing, electrical and mechanical systems.
• Number and specification of bilge pumps and how they are plumbed.
• What is the glazing size, type and how is it attached to the boat?
• Is there a way to install on storm windows?
• What type of coring?
  • How are penetrations handled.
• What resin(s) are used along with cloth specifications, i.e., layout schedule.

The Dashew's published their books for free here,https://setsail.com/making-it-happen-free-book-offer/.

The Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia has quite a few sections about getting a boat built including:

• Contracts
• Selecting a builder,
• Scheduling
• Payments
• Classifications
• Flagging
• Materials
• ....

Some of the information in the book is dated but much is still relevant.

Later,
Dan

[shimari]

Originally Posted by Chotu

MAKE SURE THEY WILL STAY SOLVENT UNTIL YOUR BOAT IS COMPLETE (gunboat)

Add Discovery to that list.

Originally Posted by Snore

Get a performance bond?

Incredibly difficult if not impossible, unfortunately. We and another owner with a boat in build investigated this for completing our builds with Ocean Shipyard. It was impossible to find any underwriters. This could be because Ocean was a new start. I don't know. We opted to buy a used Southerly, and the other owner opted to proceed with the build with a number of controls put in place.

[Sailorlady2022]

So interesting that you ask this question. My husband and I are currently in South Africa awaiting the completion of our "custom luxury catamaran". We are currently at month three of the delay and STILL not getting straight answers of when it will be done.

If there is a way to communicate offlilne we would be happy to share the details.

My biggest response would be: Buyer Beware!

We are blogging our status for our family, if you want to take a look here for some details:
https://bluetortuga.wixsite.com/blue...ogress-sort-of

We may be able to connect via Whatsapp, if you are still interested at that point.

[Sailorlady2022]

An added note regarding building boats in South Africa. The country is having significant issues keeping the electricity on. The issue is escalating and though a 'state of disaster' has been officially declared and the American Embassy has put out a security alert statement. It can be read here: https://za.usembassy.gov/security-al...icity-outages/

[unlimited]

Thanks all for all the tips and thoughts! Really helpful and there is a wide variety of subjects to cover to consider a builder.

For semi custom boats like outremer, Gunboat, HH, what percentage of the boat price is normally the deposit?

Deposits are typically non refundable. I'd be curious to know how an economic down turn would influence people pulling their orders, thereby affecting the builder.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by unlimited

...
Deposits are typically non refundable. I'd be curious to know how an economic down turn would influence people pulling their orders, thereby affecting the builder.

I think the answer is it depends. If the builder has a long back order, people dropping out just means other people move up in the build queue.

If the builder has one order, and it is dropped, well, the builder could be in trouble. Also, one has to be concerned that the builder is using money from builds that have just started to complete older build(s).

Later,
Dan