Raymarine Tech Support is Closed - Hydraulic AP Pump Bleeding?

[Chotu]

So that’s where your pump went! I bought it! Ha ha

I’ll take a look through this stuff also. But I have a few tasks from Raymarine tech-support.

They suggested that it does not spool up at full power very often. So, it’s very hard to purge it and less you connect it right to 12 V.

Also, I should be setting up the drive type in the P 70. I didn’t even do that. I just turned it on and started pressing buttons. They thought these two things would probably fix everything. I will give those a shot first.

They certainly solve my original electronics issue and one phone call that took five minutes. However I did have to buy an MFD for that. Lol

[Chotu]

Welp…


It was more electronics issues.

I had updated everything via the damn MFD I was required to purchase and I had to rerun the “dockside wizard” to feed it all the information again, even though I thought it had all the information from before.

NOTE FOR OTHERS FACING THE SAME ISSUE:


The autopilot pump will NOT work unless you perform the “did it go port?” “did it go starboard?” in the dockside wizard.

It won’t work no matter what you do (even 100 degree course corrections) unless you get through that software setup first.


It makes all the noises, but doesn’t move anything unless you do the dockside wizard.

What was really strange (and good) was that I did the “turn the wheel the opposite way of the autopilot “ bleeding technique and I could FEEL it taking fluid from the side I was pressurizing as the helm went limp and provided no resistance to turning.

I could also hear air bubbling up to the helm as it cleared the AP lines like the instructions say to do.

All works.

Next project please!!

[Chotu]

What a beast it is to install a steering system like this!

The compensating line leaked everywhere. Finally I found the specialized fittings and only seastar sells.

it drained my helm pump out completely and I grabbed it for a second when I was leaning down to reach something. I spun it a little bit. And I think I introduced air into the system.

I turned all the way to port and starboard during the refilling and autohelm bleeding process.

everything looked good.

then I centered the rudders and they were not lined up.

so, I opened the liquid tie bar valve and I centered the rudders manually and got them lined up on the center line when they are in the middle. Good stuff right?

well, now they do something a little weird.

if you are making a hard locked turn to port, the rudder on the inside of the turn turns may be 5 deg sharper than the rudder on the outside of the turn.

and the same thing happens in reverse doing the other turn. if I turn hard lock to starboard, the rudder on the inside of the turn turns 5° sharper than the rudder on the outside of the turn.

if they were doing the opposite, I would have that fancy steering that takes the geometry of the boat into account. But I have the exact opposite.

when they are in the middle they are lined up well, anyway.

this means I got some air in there doesn’t it? When the compensating line blew and I had to change it?

The auto pilot is properly bled and its steering well. But it’s steering the exact same way I’m describing above. Same way as the manual helm.

I’m figuring I can just leave it like that for my trip to the Rigger, because when do you actually go hard over? At the dock for a second? Maybe? Maybe not even

As long as they stay pretty much in line when they are centered and 10° out, that should be good. At least to get up there. Then maybe I can get some help bleeding this damn thing one more time.

you can’t bleed these on your own.

You can't see the rams from the helm

[rslifkin]

I'd make note of that behavior and bleed it again when you can. If your turns lock to lock are correct and the steering isn't mushy at the end of travel then there can't be much air in there. It may just be a function of the liquid tie bar that wasn't previously noticed.

I think I've seen it discussed that a little bit of Ackerman effect like you're seeing can actually be beneficial in tight turns on boats with widely spaced rudders like a cat. Many cars do the same with their front wheels in tight turns (inside of the turn gets a higher steering angle).

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I'd make note of that behavior and bleed it again when you can. If your turns lock to lock are correct and the steering isn't mushy at the end of travel then there can't be much air in there. It may just be a function of the liquid tie bar that wasn't previously noticed.

I think I've seen it discussed that a little bit of Ackerman effect like you're seeing can actually be beneficial in tight turns on boats with widely spaced rudders like a cat. Many cars do the same with their front wheels in tight turns (inside of the turn gets a higher steering angle).

wait. Is that right? The inside gets the higher steering angle? Holy cow. I had it backwards. I thought the outside got the higher steering angle for some reason. I don’t know why. Exhaustion. I guess I will just leave it alone then. I have free Åkerman! I'll take it!!

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

wait. Is that right? The inside gets the higher steering angle? Holy cow. I had it backwards. I thought the outside got the higher steering angle for some reason. I don’t know why. Exhaustion. I guess I will just leave it alone then. I have free Åkerman! I'll take it!!

Inside getting more angle is correct. So as long as it's not caused by air in the lines, you've got beneficial Ackerman. Either from the tie bar setup or the cylinder to steering arm geometry.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Inside getting more angle is correct. So as long as it's not caused by air in the lines, you've got beneficial Ackerman. Either from the tie bar setup or the cylinder to steering arm geometry.

so it’s definitely not the geometry of the cylinders and steering arms. Those are perfectly done. Perfectionism.

so something weird is going on with I’m guessing a little air in the line somewhere. But there is no other evidence of it. I don’t know. It’s no big deal. I’m going to keep it like it is. It’s working. I haven’t had a real sea trial yet, but it’s working dockside. Saturday will be the sea trial.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

so it’s definitely not the geometry of the cylinders and steering arms. Those are perfectly done. Perfectionism.

so something weird is going on with I’m guessing a little air in the line somewhere. But there is no other evidence of it. I don’t know. It’s no big deal. I’m going to keep it like it is. It’s working. I haven’t had a real sea trial yet, but it’s working dockside. Saturday will be the sea trial.

Being that it's symmetrical in both directions, if it were in the geometry it would have to be intentional. Are the steering arms exactly parallel to the rudders? Or do they point slightly inward with the rudders straight ahead.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Being that it's symmetrical in both directions, if it were in the geometry it would have to be intentional. Are the steering arms exactly parallel to the rudders? Or do they point slightly inward with the rudders straight ahead.

They do point slightly outward with rudders straight ahead. Outward because that's how my rudders are set up. Could just as easily point inward if set up differently.

They are at 90 degrees to the rudder post/centerline when hard over. Otherwise they are at angles.

This is the exact installation.

They are very precisely installed exactly like this attachment.

What's happening is one of them (the one on the outside of the turn) is no longer going exactly at 90 degrees to centerline when hard over.

The ram's rod goes all the way to the end on the rudder on the inside of the turn (going completely 90 deg to centerline), while the ram's rod on the outside of the turn falls about an inch short of reaching the end.

And it doesn't matter which way you turn. It happens symmetrically in both directions.

Note: I can’t say if this is new behavior after the compensating line leak. I did not notice it before but it doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Odd


May I also say just how cool it is to have new stuff? Every other hydraulic steering system I have owned before has been over 20 years old. this is the smoothest steering I have ever experienced on a boat other than a racing boat with cable steering. it feels great.

[rslifkin]

That definitely indicates the Ackerman effect is occurring hydraulically. As long as it's not due to air, it should be fine.