Re-bedding Beckson port lights and trim rings

[fregata]

I’ve got a few leaky port lights and have decided it’s time to re-bed all of them. My boat has 8 of the plastic Beckson port lights. Unfortunately, they work well enough that I can’t justify the expense of simply replacing them with something better.

As far as I can tell, my cabin wall construction from the outside in is:
Gel coat
Approx 1/4” fiberglass
Approx 1/2” ply
Apex 1/16” Hard white shell material used for counter tops and walls laminated to the plywood

I suspect this is not cored in the traditional sense because the wooden wall extends down below where the fiberglass curves away to form the side deck. Nevertheless, on a few portlights some water has gotten to this wood and I would like to prevent that in the future. On one port light the white interior shell has slightly delaminated from the plywood.

What I’ve done so far:

-Remove and clean all the ports
-Clean previous sealant from openings. Appears to be plumbers putty or something similar. Mostly tacky. Hard in some places
-Let things dry.

What I’m struggling with:

The existing ports are screwed to the cabin wall from the inside with short self tapping screws. Not all of the holes are in suitable condition to hold these screws.

The trim ring is similarly screwed into the cabin exterior using self tapping screws. As such, the hole pattern for the port light and the trim ring are not aligned and do not lend themselves to elegantly switching to through bolted hardware.

One thought is to drill out the holes, fill with epoxy, and then screw the existing hardware into the epoxy plugs. I would bed the port light with quality silicone as per Beckson instructions.

However, it seems silly to leave 6 holes in the cabin exterior for the decorative trim ring when the silicone would hold it on just find. The problem is that each trim ring already has 6 holes in it and a replacement from Beckson comes out to $35/ea so that is nearly $300 just for some stupid plastic trim pieces.

I’m contemplating between a few options:
-Proceed with my plan to refurbish the holes and re-install things as previously fitted
-Find a material to cut replacement trim rings out of. I’m not sure how I could color match it. Or perhaps I could pick a complementary color to aged white plastic? I would need something UV stable. I have access to CNC and laser cutters.
-Cut the heads off the screws and glue them on in the holes of existing trim rings?
-Go all out and through bolt the port lights
-Tap the epoxy and switch to machine screws. Or embed a threaded fastener.

The last few options seem like a lot of extra work for incremental gains in this application.

Any other ideas? Wisdom from the community is greatly appreciated. I’d like to strike a balance between doing right by my future self without creating unnecessary work for my present self.

[Cheechako]

PORTLITES:
You can just epoxy in small dowel in the bad holes for a good grip. But filling with a hard material should help the screws get a grip. As you say, good sealant should hold things fine really.

I would not use silicone personally. Or if you do, get some of the high quality sealant , silicone blend, used for skyscraper window installs. The type/brand evades me but members here know what it is. Often mentioned under "catamaran window replacement"

Thread inserts would be great, Could you live a small lip like these have? Brass, easy to predrill and drive in, without having to screw in inserts. (is the trim ring recessed on the back?)

https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detai...RoCqwMQAvD_BwE

OUTSIDE RINGS:
It would be very nice to make some exterior rings and not have all those screws. But could be a lot of work. Materials are difficult to make smooth after sawing etc. even 1/4" Starboard would be hard to make nice.

The holes for the outer trim rings are in the fiberglass already right? Why not just tap those and use nice Oval Head SS machine screws for the trim rings? Or even Truss head and go slightly larger if necessary. (less likely to crack a trim ring) Use short screws that only go into the fiberglass? That fills the holes nicely and the sealant holds the ring anyway.

[DougR]

Beckson offers something they call “barrel nuts” . These are tubular nuts with countersunk heads which let you thru bolt the windows to the cabin side and still have a flush surface for the trim ring to sit on. Take a look at their web site under fasteners or hardware.

Then you can install the trim rings just as they are now, or make some new ones up, or whatever you like.

I think the sealant Cheechako is thinking about is Dow Corning 795 silicone. Used to install building windows.

[fregata]

Cheechako,

You can just epoxy in small dowel in the bad holes for a good grip.

Would you recommend the dowel over screwing into thickened epoxy?

I would not use silicone personally. Or if you do, get some of the high quality sealant

I was planning to use something like DOW 795. What would be your pick for the job?

Thread inserts would be great, Could you live a small lip like these have? Brass, easy to predrill and drive in, without having to screw in inserts. (is the trim ring recessed on the back?)

https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detai...RoCqwMQAvD_BwE

Those inserts are interesting. The plate is not recessed on the back, but perhaps I could find a way to make something like this work.

The holes for the outer trim rings are in the fiberglass already right? Why not just tap those and use nice Oval Head SS machine screws for the trim rings? Or even Truss head and go slightly larger if necessary. (less likely to crack a trim ring) Use short screws that only go into the fiberglass? That fills the holes nicely and the sealant holds the ring anyway.

You know, this might just be the way to go. Short screws that only go into the fiberglass. It seems like a good compromise. It will look the same as it does now and I don't have to worry about a potential path for water to reach the wood. The added bonus is that I wouldn't have to do any epoxy work outside where it is more difficult to keep things warm.

DougR,

Beckson offers something they call “barrel nuts” . These are tubular nuts with countersunk heads

The barrel nuts are an interesting option. Based on Cheechako's response and my recent thinking, I'm not sure the added strength of through bolting in this application would really be worth it vs just somehow getting the screws to bite into the wood on the inboard side. What do you think?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by fregata

Cheechako,



Would you recommend the dowel over screwing into thickened epoxy?

Not necessarily, depends on the epoxy, sometimes it's a bit gummy. Realistically, just a toothpick or two with some epoxy will give the screws some bite. How big are the holes? If you fill, be sure to predrill before screwing

I was planning to use something like DOW 795. What would be your pick for the job?
Yes


Those inserts are interesting. The plate is not recessed on the back, but perhaps I could find a way to make something like this work.

I think DougR found the right thing!

You know, this might just be the way to go. Short screws that only go into the fiberglass. It seems like a good compromise. It will look the same as it does now and I don't have to worry about a potential path for water to reach the wood. The added bonus is that I wouldn't have to do any epoxy work outside where it is more difficult to keep things warm.



DougR,



The barrel nuts are an interesting option. Based on Cheechako's response and my recent thinking, I'm not sure the added strength of through bolting in this application would really be worth it vs just somehow getting the screws to bite into the wood on the inboard side. What do you think?

Answers in bold above

[fregata]

I appreciate the input from everyone. Given my timeline I didn't have time to incorporate everyone's advice, but definitely have some thoughts for how I would do things in the future (hopefully not in the next 10 years...)

I think that sealing around the perimeter of the porthole frame was a good idea. I used West System epoxy mixed with just enough high density filler so that it would not readily drip. It was still thin enough to paint on with a brush. Hopefully this provides a good surface for the sealant to adhere to and a last line of defense should the sealant fail.

Regarding mounting the porthole to the interior, I think what I did was certainly overkill. I ended up drilling the holes out to 3/8" and filling with thickened epoxy of about peanut butter consistency. I drilled 1/8" pilot holes and was able to firmly re-insert the screws when installing the port. I think this solution was adequate, but ultimately a waste of time. It was also challenging to drill the holes because the hard white laminate shell on the plywood would catch the edge of the drill bit and pull away from the plywood if you weren't careful. The screws were only driven in 5/16" at most and did not penetrate into the exterior fiberglass. As such, they were not at risk of allowing any water intrusion. Next time, I'd probably try the trick of inserting a matchstick into the hole or injecting some thin epoxy for the holes that were stripped (which was not many of them contrary to my initial fears based on my experience with the single worst port that I replaced months ago because it leaked like a sieve and had 3-4 stripped out holes)

I ended up replacing the exterior trim rings as they were. I didn't want to wait to come up with a replacement. Each one was fitted with 12 self tapping screws, however they were short and did not penetrate through the fiberglass so not as much of an issue as I had anticipated. I filled each hole with sealant for good measure.