Reality of switching to making a living as a tradesman on sailboats?

[fschaefer4]

@Ann-
I've read a lot of your posts and really appreciate your opinion. What you made the point of how will I find out if I don't go for it.

This is a big part of why I'm interested in this. Your brain gets habituated to what you do day in and day out. I spend all my time in zoom calls, in excel and dealing with calendars.

I'm keen to put myself to the test of expanding what I can do. In the past when I was more hands on, my brain just did a lot more interesting things. Now I finish my day and all I can say is that I sent a lot of emails. BLARGH.

The trick is getting into it and knowing your limit. Worst thing in the trades is to over promise and under deliver.

@Boatpoker- I'm on your side of the line man. All the way!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by fschaefer4

@Boatpoker- I'm on your side of the line man. All the way!

email me ... boatpoker@gmail.com
I'll respond with some stuff in pdf to get you started.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Great dream that I think has great promise.

Skilled tradespeople that work on boats are in high demand everywhere, are usually very busy, and there's always room for more.

From a standing start, someone who is handy working on their own boat can always find boat owners with less skills or less time/desire/tools to do the jobs that you have done on your boat. This is the "handyman" approach and it works great as long as you're honest about what you can and can't do and don't take on jobs that are outside your knowledge/skills.

Another approach is to specialize. From a marketing standpoint it's easier to become known as "the boat window guy" than a generalist. Also means less tools and parts to carry around!

The need and demand is there, and a bit of marketing to reach boat owners who need you is not hard, even if you cruise from place to place. For example-

- Walking docks always works, and it's fun to talk with fellow boat owners about their boat. Remember to ask for referrals if they are not a prospect for your services.

- Make friends with harbor masters and their staff and chandleries and ask for referrals and ideas how to reach local boat owners.

- Post flyers at marina bulletin boards

- Ask local boat owners about the local yacht clubs, online forums and Facebook pages, sailing clubs and schools, etc, that you might network with.

Live your dream and have a blast! Remember, there is ALWAYS a way to make it (whatever "it" is) work.

Agree with everything you say.

Like fschaefer4 I had a soul destroying job and as an accountant I used to look out the skyscraper window at yachts on the Swan River and think "I wish...."

If fschaefer4 is in a financial position and maybe not a lot of family responsibility it is most certainly a "go".

Go for it!

[Jim Cate]

There has been a lot of good thought posted here, with some suggestions about lucrative fields of endeavor. I'd like to add an observation that I've made over lots of years hanging about the cruising community, especially here in Australia:

We've seen a lot of very frustrated yotties trying to deal with tradesmen, and the most common complaint is not about quality of work (although that does come up), but rather lack of reliability. Simply showing up, ready to go to work when you say you will is enough to gain market penetration... so simple, yet so rare!

I think it has to do with starting out as an independent tradie... say a diesel mechanic. You do a good job and the word spreads, and soon you have more work than you can actually accomplish. This leads to the dread failure to show up on time and unhappy customers. A few folks have the courage to turn down jobs, some start working huge hours to try to keep up, and some hire helpers... but all too many just keep on stiffing customers with unfulfilled promises.

Example: we hired a rigger to do some mast repairs, a fellow we'd known for years and whose work was first class. I asked how long to do the job (which included pulling the mast) and he said "one week, no problem". What he failed to mention was that he was juggling several other jobs at the same time, and that my "one week's work" would be accomplished working one day out of each passing week. It took six weeks of sitting in a very expensive marina before we were able to re-step the mast. A big chunk out of our northern cruising season and our wallets. Not happy campers were we.

So, for the OP, you need to decide how to conduct your business as it expands (and if you are a good tradie, it will expand). Do you limit the number of jobs so that they can be accomplished on time or do you hire helpers to meet demand... at which time you become a manager more than a tradie... or do you join the ranks of those who aggravate their customer base?

Of course, this advice comes from someone who has never been "in the biz" himself, so don't take it as gospel... but we've sure listened to a lot of disgruntled yotties who were dealing with over committed tradesmen.

Good luck with your decision and perhaps a new career!

Jim

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

There has been a lot of good thought posted here, with some suggestions about lucrative fields of endeavor. I'd like to add an observation that I've made over lots of years hanging about the cruising community, especially here in Australia:

We've seen a lot of very frustrated yotties trying to deal with tradesmen, and the most common complaint is not about quality of work (although that does come up), but rather lack of reliability. Simply showing up, ready to go to work when you say you will is enough to gain market penetration... so simple, yet so rare!

I think it has to do with starting out as an independent tradie... say a diesel mechanic. You do a good job and the word spreads, and soon you have more work than you can actually accomplish. This leads to the dread failure to show up on time and unhappy customers. A few folks have the courage to turn down jobs, some start working huge hours to try to keep up, and some hire helpers... but all too many just keep on stiffing customers with unfulfilled promises.

Example: we hired a rigger to do some mast repairs, a fellow we'd known for years and whose work was first class. I asked how long to do the job (which included pulling the mast) and he said "one week, no problem". What he failed to mention was that he was juggling several other jobs at the same time, and that my "one week's work" would be accomplished working one day out of each passing week. It took six weeks of sitting in a very expensive marina before we were able to re-step the mast. A big chunk out of our northern cruising season and our wallets. Not happy campers were we.

So, for the OP, you need to decide how to conduct your business as it expands (and if you are a good tradie, it will expand). Do you limit the number of jobs so that they can be accomplished on time or do you hire helpers to meet demand... at which time you become a manager more than a tradie... or do you join the ranks of those who aggravate their customer base?

Of course, this advice comes from someone who has never been "in the biz" himself, so don't take it as gospel... but we've sure listened to a lot of disgruntled yotties who were dealing with over committed tradesmen.

Good luck with your decision and perhaps a new career!

Jim

From someone who is in the trade ... You nailed it.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

After getting out of hospital due to collapsed lung and duodenal ulcer caused by stress and overwork, my wife threw all my suits in the garbage and told me to find a new way of making a living. She was an incredible woman and going to work every day for the last 30yrs. in this business has been a joy.

Port Credit Marine Surveys

Show up when you say you will
Do what you say you'll do
Charge what you said you'd charge.

In short order you will rule the market.

Very important traits.


I worked for an international engineering company for 25 years. I could never figure out how they couldn't write a contract that would
1. describe what they were going to do
2. figure out a way to limit "redesigns" when things changed so they didn't continue to lose money


I finally started my own business. I knew what I was really selling was my time, along with my experience. I said how many different options I'd give them (3 or 6, not 3,456!!!), how many meetings I would attend (not unlimited), and what the deliverable would be, as well as what would constitute additional services. I did that for another 20 years, very successfully.


One has to know what things cost, so it's one of the very first things YOU will need to learn.


In your case: materials & labor.



Good luck.

[mvweebles]

Not just boats, but all trades suffer from flakiness. House, car, you name it. People confuse inability to abide by a schedule with being busy. It's not. Just plain flakiness.

As Woody Allen said "80% of life is just showing up.".

[fschaefer4]

Reliability really is the selling point. I was a general contractor for 10 years before this job. Once you rip someone's bathroom apart or take the roof of their house off to add a second story, you have them over a barrel. That's a very vulnerable place for a customer to be. You HAVE to be on point and get something like this buttoned up.

I would always give people a tentative timeline. Sometimes a job blows up on you. You open up the walls and find a bunch of rot, or dangerous sub par electrical work. You try to find it before you pick up a hammer, but you can't always get everything right.

If you can't show up on time because of job creep, call asap. Especially before someone spends time/money/effort and then you ice them for a week.

@Jm Cate- You are absolutely right about deciding how one wants to run your business. If you want to be hands on and NOT be a manager, you have to keep your job list small. No matter how much someone asks you to "fit them in". If you want to be a manager, then you better know how to hire. Nothing like a $20/hour guy causing $1,000s of dollars of damage or ruining your reputation. I'm pretty much over all of that.

@Stu Jackson- getting a simple strait forward contract is important. I'm not sure why it's so hard. But change orders used to kill me until I specifically added them to my contracts.

[LisaRepac]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

After getting out of hospital due to collapsed lung and duodenal ulcer caused by stress and overwork, my wife threw all my suits in the garbage and told me to find a new way of making a living. She was an incredible woman and going to work every day for the last 30yrs. in this business has been a joy.

Port Credit Marine Surveys

Show up when you say you will
Do what you say you'll do
Charge what you said you'd charge.

In short order you will rule the market.

How does one get into surveying? I am interested in this as I have a keen eye for detail, and am also looking for a way to do what I love. I have a few books on the topic ( Don Casey) and would like to know which avenues to investigate for this kind of work.
Thank you.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by LisaRepac

How does one get into surveying? I am interested in this as I have a keen eye for detail, and am also looking for a way to do what I love. I have a few books on the topic ( Don Casey) and would like to know which avenues to investigate for this kind of work.
Thank you.

I have a few opinions on that How To Become A Marine Surveyor

The very first step is to become thoroughly familiar with the 30 odd chapters of ABYC Standards. If you can get through that the other steps will come easier.
email me at boatpoker@gmail.com

[LisaRepac]

Expect an email soon. Thank you for the response.

[ELC]

Done this for decades while living aboard and cruising off and on. Been a journeyman woodenboat shipwright and surveyor. Worked on everything from building and repairing skiffs to 100 plus foot schooners and luxury yachts.

Just my two bits on it all. Burned out on surveying. If you are good and honest someone is often times pretty upset with you. From the seller who thinks his boat is worth way more to the buyer who wants bigger numbers for the loan to the guy caught scamming his insurance or the brokers who said they'd destroy me because I exposed their piece of junk for what it was to the buyer who hired me. Then there was silly politics in the surveyors organizations that you are pretty much stuck with. Just got sick of the conflict for doing an honest job. Some people just don't get bothered by it though.

You need to know more than the CFRs and ABYC. You need to seriously know your way around boats, systems and materials. There's plenty who don't and get away with a lot but they get a reputation for the same.

Craftsman. Woodworking on boats is a different universe from landslide. No levels, only a few things square and rolling bevels and curves. You see a lot of bad work done by folks who were probably good at framing houses but not marine work honestly. You can make the switch but you'll need the time working with someone who knows the trade if you want to pull it off well.

That said I've usually had more work than I wanted once I got known in a new place. Trying to leave now in one area and have several people pleading for one more project. A lot of what I've done has been fixing messes made by owners or people who thought the were shipwrights. The first shipwright I worked under gave me this advice many years ago. It's still true.

Said you really want to work for two groups if you can. Commercial vessels first off. If you can make it strong, functional and not ugly they will pay good to get it done fast so they can get back to work. Then people so rich that they don't care what it costs or how long it takes as long as it looks and performs like they want and it's better than their buddies boat. Everyone in between is a royal pain.

He was so very right.

If I was doing it again? Canvas work and sail repair. Dang those folks are popular IF they do top quality work.

[Poche]

Possible, but difficult and unlikely to do well.
Boats are very challenging to work on and since its discretionary to maintain a boat as soon as the economy slows you lose.
Marine materials are expensive and owners will not understand why your estimate is so high.
Last, around here for example, you compete with undocumented and unskilled labor who tend to charge less.
Better to get a "crew" and quote jobs as a working business owner.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by ELC

Said you really want to work for two groups if you can. Commercial vessels first off. If you can make it strong, functional and not ugly they will pay good to get it done fast so they can get back to work. Then people so rich that they don't care what it costs or how long it takes as long as it looks and performs like they want and it's better than their buddies boat. Everyone in between is a royal pain.

This is gospel. The in-betweeners will never understand.

[ELC]

Glad someone else gets it!