Refitting an Alberg 37 Complete Newbie

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by SailnParadise

Ive heard time and again that it wont work. Im not interested in that. There are plenty that have used it without issues. And the only time Ill need to motor more than out of a marina is in an emergency. Ill have over 30nm of range so ill be fine. Ill put most of my electric engine discussion in that topic since most here are against anything other than diesel.

Your boat. Your choices. No problem with this.


I have just helped place lithium batteries in an Oyster. 600 Ah the cost of my own boat and then a bit.



b.

[Skipper Lee]

Hi, Not everyone here dislikes electric.
I am here and and going 5KW T-Struck electric on my 4900 lb 27 ft. But will likely cost your 7K just for my displacement.
$4,400.00 for the stuff from T Struck
add in the 2000 watt inverter and the 4 firefly batts were at 7K there (oops CDN).
No regen below 6kts, That is about hull speed anyway.
Add 15 Hp Outboard with charging cause the 5KW electric likely wont get further than 35 Km before charging is needed at full slow ahead.
I also had a similar size sloop when I was younger and went around Van BC for 3 years with no engine at all, Transom hung rudder back and forth quickly got me in and out of the marina without issue.
I would not want to be squeezed between big wind and the rocks without both electric and the inverter and the charging outboard though.
Best wishes and regards, Lee.

[hpaabor]

Reading the comments I had to whack my forehead to realize this is a cruisers forum. If it was a sailors forum some might have mentioned that sailboats existed before motors. Even modern folks like the Pardy's have managed without them. But you do have to be skilled at sailing if going that way. You will need to practice small for a long time till you are good enough to go big. Electric for pushing to and from a dock is just fine but that's all it should be expected to do. After that there is wind or you have to be willing to wait for it. If you really just want to chug from point to point you might not even need a mast

[fred4936]

I had a Thunderstruck kit in our Tartan 27-2, and I loved it. Customer service from Thunderstruck is excellent. We had an issue last spring, and they were very helpful. That was 9 years after purchase. It was simple, reliable, smooth, and most things you want in an auxiliary. Being a sailboat, we sailed as much as we could. I have been sailing for about 30 years. I could set the anchor, raise the anchor, and in the right conditions, dock and un-dock that boat under sail. After years of practice sailing other boats. I would hesitate to do that in the 34 I have now. Since you are at the early stages of the learning curve for all this, I would strongly consider going diesel, and sail as much as you can. Electric is a great option for many applications, and I will do love it. But it does require you sail more, motor less. But you need to know more aspects of sail and boat handling to make the best of it. Good luck, keep us posted! Great boats BTW!

[Schapera]

An inexperienced Captain such as yourself should be handcuffed to the dock before being allowed to sail out with an inexperienced crew that includes a newborn baby. Your comment that “it’s only 18 hours to the Bahamas“ and “that should be no problem for a baby” makes my blood boil. You have responsibility for the safety of your crew, and for those who might be called to assist you in an emergency. You are ticking almost every single box that would need to be ticked to bring on that emergency. I urge you to do a rethink and to spend the first 12 months in local waters, learning to sale and learning about your boat.

[Sunstone]

Replacing the Standing Rigging
We replaced Sunstone's (A-37 MkI) entire standing rigging about 10 years ago using 316 SS Dyform Wire, and Norsemen Connectors (using the Dyform specific cones - can't use the regular cones). We also added a Harken B-500 mechanical backstay adjuster that fits an 8" winch handle. Love it.

At the time, Norsemen Marine in Fla was still in business. One can use Stalock terminals in lieu of Norsemens. The wire is still manufactured.
Though be warned, Dyform is tougher on sail stitching and would demolish Mylar sails.

To offset the Dyform propensity to damage sail thread I used the Davis plastic wire covers on the Lowers and lower part of the Uppers where the clew area contacts during a tack. I also don't let the Genoa backwind during a tack. Problem solved.

The extra meat in the Dyform increases the wire strength per diameter over regular 302/304 SS 1x19, to somewhat stronger than the OEM wire and reduces stretch by 25%.

The corrosion résistance is phenomenal.

The Schaeffer 2000 rolls nicely on it.

For a given diameter Dyform at the size we use is about 15% stronger than standard 302/304 SS round 1x19, and 30% stronger than 316 SS round 1x19 for the same diameter.

Equivalent to going up a size in wire without actually going up a size in wire.
I cut all the wire with a Dremel fabric reinforced cutoff disc. Used 2 discs to do the whole job and kept the bursts low and the wire wet so the properties of the SS steel wire didn't change.

A nice balance between the properties of 1X19 and Rod Rigging.

- JB

https://rigworks.com/yacht-rigging-s...%20with%20wire.

[Sunstone]

First, congratulations on buying Ryan's boat.
I sail an Alberg 37 Mk1, since 1992, before that an Alberg 30. Been sailing since 1965.
A-37s are great boats.

My first suggestion is you join the Alberg 37 Sailboats page on FB, a very active and knowledgeable bunch on the subject of A-37s https://www.facebook.com/groups/1627...?ref=bookmarks

I'm a bit skeptical frankly about going electric, but hey, it's your boat.

Somebody suggested putting an outboard in a well in the boat - don't do it.
Minimizing weight in the ends is critical for the boat's performance and minimizing hobby horsing. We've cruised and very successfully raced over the years.

Weight placement is critical. Nothing heavier than the lifejackets in the lazarette, and your ship's light recycling trash.

Plus an outboard is behind the rudder, and the prop will cavitate badly in a swell as she hobbyhorses. The propeller aperture is perfectly placed for the inboard, giving very good low speed maneuvering as it washes against the rudder. Once you get used to it, the boat's manners in reverse are predictable. You will learn how to back and fill to maneuver in tight situations and will learn when not to try.

I would suggest you stick with a diesel. If you are in a sensitive area, just don't run it.

If the Volvo is no good and your budget tight I would suggest you search around for a used Westerbeke 4-107 or Perkins 4-107 4-108. There are a ton of them around and they are the better engines. I would also suggest Deep Cycle Golf Cart batteries as being the best bang for the buck.

Over the course of a sailing summer, including our annual month long cruise to the 1000 Islands (at the opposite end of Lake Ontario) we use a total of between 20-35 gallons of diesel. Our Westerbeke burns under half a gallon an hour. The carbon impact of that amount of diesel is diddly do.

However, the power reserve is there should you find yourself becalmed and being carried by a current toward the rocks. Theoretically we could motor to and from the 1000 Islands the whole way without refueling. We don't do that because we sail a sailboat, but the option is there if needs be.

All this said. Enjoy your boat. You got her at a great price and the A-37 is simply a terrific boat. Just don't cut corners fitting her out, because the sea will find the compromises tout de suite.

Cheers,

JB

[SVSOLITAIRE]

Originally Posted by SailnParadise

I was thinking about an outboard but the shape of the hull would make it difficult. I was thinking about a long shaft. Maybe a modified long shaft of thats possible. I really don’t wanna sit for months while waiting on a new engine. Not to mention the cost 5-6k for a new engine is more than the cost of an electric engine and battery bank

Best of luck!

[MurrayC]

Lots of good comments. I figure the electric engine is suitable for short term marina hopping. GEt a good engine with a heavy 100 Amp alternator and some big batteries.. When retrofitting make sure to involve your wife in all decisions- otherwise when she comes on board finally the boat will be yours not hers and there will be t r trouble. The Alberg is a pretty small boat for cruising - check out the tankage for practicality. Same holds true for more modern designs. The Alberg is ocean capable but it won't be easy. advice to sail locally as above is recommended.

[SailnParadise]

Thanks for all the information and comments! I have spent the day rebuilding an old set of stairs and moving all the stuff out of the boat into a uhaul for room. I also started seating all the thru hull fittings. But the 4200 was rock solid and unusable and I dont want to use 5200 so I'll have to wait until the morning to get some more. Also have to figure out how to cut the 2 brass fittings down. Any suggestions?

About the engine. Its not just about preference its also about expense. Spending $4,500 + 299 shipping (lowest price Westerbeke I found) and then weeks putting it in and figuring it all out just isn't possible. Remember we have 90 days (84 now). Flying her out and me staying here isn't an option and us flying out and leaving the boat isn't an option either. So with the batteries I am getting from a friend the cost of the electric engine will be <$2,500. Not counting the panels since I will be getting those even if I went diesel. I am open for other suggestions.

There is a Volvo MD2B sitting up in NC that isnt working. I have thought about going and getting it and then installing the electric engine next summer once we have more experience.

[SailnParadise]

Once we get to the Bahamas we will stay there for a while to learn and figure things out. The biggest challenge is getting there.

[Skipper Lee]

Wow lots of comments and suggestions here! I hope your adventure goes well.
Lots was said and imho I hope Shapiras comments were absorbed. The sea gets unforgiving very quickly and can suck the life out of you and what you hold dearly and close to your heart.
My Secret till now is I almost died the third weekend of my sailing experience while teaching myself to sail.
Everything was great until there was a smallish earthquake below the sea and in my proximity. I was overwhelmed by the state of the sea which changed super quick.
I heard no radio warning. I was alone and inexperienced and had no practice reducing sail ( so I didnt) or dealing with the new scenario and was terrified when I recognized I screwed up. I almost ran into West Vancouver cause I was to scared to move the tiller cause it caused the boat to heel so much, but I skimmed by the rocks and made it. Thing is I have a nightmare at times.
Luckily I didnt have precious with me to see the fear, That will take the wind right out of their confidence in you...
Sooo, My suggestion cause you asked is:
Please dont be unprepared, uneducated and plain stupid lucky like I was. At least ask if any skippers or at least experienced crew out there want to go with you and your wife and baby to paradise for 18 hours. Someone would! I wont think your chicken.
If you start a you tube boat channel let us know.
Cheers, Lee.
Stay safe.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by SailnParadise

Thanks for all the information and comments! I have spent the day rebuilding an old set of stairs and moving all the stuff out of the boat into a uhaul for room. I also started seating all the thru hull fittings. But the 4200 was rock solid and unusable and I dont want to use 5200 so I'll have to wait until the morning to get some more. Also have to figure out how to cut the 2 brass fittings down. Any suggestions?

About the engine. Its not just about preference its also about expense. Spending $4,500 + 299 shipping (lowest price Westerbeke I found) and then weeks putting it in and figuring it all out just isn't possible. Remember we have 90 days (84 now). Flying her out and me staying here isn't an option and us flying out and leaving the boat isn't an option either. So with the batteries I am getting from a friend the cost of the electric engine will be <$2,500. Not counting the panels since I will be getting those even if I went diesel. I am open for other suggestions.

There is a Volvo MD2B sitting up in NC that isnt working. I have thought about going and getting it and then installing the electric engine next summer once we have more experience.

Even a good Westerbeke might not be a good idea, due to parts availability and prices. I'm with most everyone else; electric is just not a good idea, especially if you plan on sailing your boat to the Mediterranean.

Just started looking, found a 3QM30FG with trransmission in Clearwater for 1500.00. The ad is old so it may not be available or legit, but its worth checking out. https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/bpo...193484724.html.

Also a 3GM30F with transmission and gauges, supposedly completely rebuilt with Yanmar parts and 1 year warranty, just south of Titusville for 4000.00, 321 636 8950. https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/bp...206208908.html

And a 4107 perkins 140 hrs, no gear, Bradenton, 2250.00, 760 413 5497 https://miami.craigslist.org/brw/bpo...199096050.html

There are many good used engines available in south Florida, looking around and getting the word out (and avoiding middle men) should get you a good engine in a less than a week, possibly for as little as a 1000.00 or so dollars.

[Don C L]

I have read through all the posts, mostly with a sense of alarm. My first question is, why the rush? All because of your wife's 90 day limit? There is this sense of urgency, and yet you say you are a newbie. You don't know yet what you don't know. You are trying to prepare for something that you don't know about yet. Do you know if you and your wife get sea sick? I have considered going engineless or underpowered in my old school boat, but I know what that means. I am not rushing to it. I know what it is like to sail with kids. I would not ever have considered taking an infant, especially if my wife was not an experienced sailor. I know what it's like to work on a boat. Your timetable does not sound realistic. The cart is way before the horse here. I know this post will not be one you want to hear. If you want that boat in the Bahamas, your wife and baby fly there and you hire a delivery skipper to help you. On that boat an outboard won't work, and this is coming from someone who HAS an outboard. The electric motor won't get you far, but at least you can get into the harbor once you get to the Bahamas. Trying to cut all the corners you can before you have set out, and set out with your wife and newborn, and before you have experience, is really unwise to say the least. Do you know what it is like to have a newborn?
Now you may say ok, what do I have to offer in terms of advice? Choose a destination where you can live inexpensively and can work on the boat. Working and living on a boat is very difficult. Find a place where you, your wife and child don't HAVE to live on the boat while you work on it. You, a delivery skipper and a couple other experienced folks sail the boat there. And by the way what does your wife think of raising the baby on a 37 foot boat?

[SailnParadise]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I have read through all the posts, mostly with a sense of alarm. My first question is, why the rush? All because of your wife's 90 day limit? There is this sense of urgency, and yet you say you are a newbie. You don't know yet what you don't know. You are trying to prepare for something that you don't know about yet. Do you know if you and your wife get sea sick? I have considered going engineless or underpowered in my old school boat, but I know what that means. I am not rushing to it. I know what it is like to sail with kids. I would not ever have considered taking an infant, especially if my wife was not an experienced sailor. I know what it's like to work on a boat. Your timetable does not sound realistic. The cart is way before the horse here. I know this post will not be one you want to hear. If you want that boat in the Bahamas, your wife and baby fly there and you hire a delivery skipper to help you. On that boat an outboard won't work, and this is coming from someone who HAS an outboard. The electric motor won't get you far, but at least you can get into the harbor once you get to the Bahamas. Trying to cut all the corners you can before you have set out, and set out with your wife and newborn, and before you have experience, is really unwise to say the least. Do you know what it is like to have a newborn?

Now you may say ok, what do I have to offer in terms of advice? Choose a destination where you can live inexpensively and can work on the boat. Working and living on a boat is very difficult. Find a place where you, your wife and child don't HAVE to live on the boat while you work on it. You, a delivery skipper and a couple other experienced folks sail the boat there. And by the way what does your wife think of raising the baby on a 37 foot boat?

The boat will be ready/complete within 60 days. The refit requires a lot less work than I imagined due to the previous owner either starting, completing or preparing everything. He also included all the parts and a spreadsheet of work to be completed.

As far as the rush/setting out. I am not looking to start sailing in 90 days. Just needing to get the boat to the bahamas. Once there we can take our time and learn even more making small day sails. And again separately flying the baby and her over is not an option. I’d rather just hire someone to come along on the passage and help train me. That seems to be a viable option and one I will start to look into. I am not looking to cut corners and put ourselves at risk. Just simply need to move the boat to the bahamas as safely as possible in about 82 days.