Removing 'Bristol Finish' from Teak

[minaret]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Check out the label. I don't even know if it's sold worlwide but Dutch boatbuilders use this stuff a lot and claim best performance in the tropics.

Don't let the wording with "olie" or "oil" get in the way... This gives a varnish-like coating which is very thick, with UV filters, designed for teak wood.



ciao!
Nick.

This is probably the worlds most commonly used traditional varnish. It is good stuff if traditional varnish is what you want. Good old "bootlak". Looks great, but best performance-no. Not even close. Urethanes last much longer. You'll notice cricket mentioned it on pg. 2, and replaced it with bristol and then cetol. A usual progression.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by minaret

This is probably the worlds most commonly used traditional varnish. It is good stuff if traditional varnish is what you want. Good old "bootlak". Looks great, but best performance-no. Not even close. Urethanes last much longer. You'll notice cricket mentioned it on pg. 2, and replaced it with bristol and then cetol. A usual progression.

Ehrmm.. No, Epifanes bootlak has the word "bootlak" on the label:


cheers,
Nick.

[minaret]

Yes the bootslak is the varnish, the one you originally posted is hardhoutolie, or "hardwood oil", as I'm sure you know being dutch. It is an oil finish. "Bootlak means "boat varnish". Forget your Dutch? They also make a 2 part polyurethane that should last much longer than traditional varnish, but it's a recent product for them and I've never seen it used. They are known for traditional varnish and enamel.

[Cranston]

Heat gun and a sharp paint scrapper - it comes right off. Personally I like it and have got 3+ years in the California sun.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yes the bootslak is the varnish, the one you originally posted is hardhoutolie, or "hardwood oil", as I'm sure you know being dutch. It is an oil finish. "Bootlak means "boat varnish". Forget your Dutch? They also make a 2 part polyurethane that should last much longer than traditional varnish, but it's a recent product for them and I've never seen it used. They are known for traditional varnish and enamel.

I thought you said that they were the same. Actually, that is what you wrote

ciao!
Nick.

[Exile]

Following up on this informative thread, I'm finally beyond my own Bristol Finish fiasco (seductive advertising) but am not wild about Cetol. Went with Epifanes and lost count on the number of coats applied to my cap & rub rails. Hoping that a couple of maintenance coats once a year will prevent a repeat. As Rebel Heart pointed out, too many other priorities on & off the boat to go through that again. If this doesn't work, I'd be interested in knowing more about the epoxy seal paint that Minaret mentioned, e.g., does it last longer, require fewer coats, what colors could work? I could be wrong, but my understanding is that letting it all go to bare teak will turn it all black and cause the bungs to pop out.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Exile

Following up on this informative thread, I'm finally beyond my own Bristol Finish fiasco (seductive advertising) but am not wild about Cetol. Went with Epifanes and lost count on the number of coats applied to my cap & rub rails. Hoping that a couple of maintenance coats once a year will prevent a repeat. As Rebel Heart pointed out, too many other priorities on & off the boat to go through that again. If this doesn't work, I'd be interested in knowing more about the epoxy seal paint that Minaret mentioned, e.g., does it last longer, require fewer coats, what colors could work? I could be wrong, but my understanding is that letting it all go to bare teak will turn it all black and cause the bungs to pop out.

Black? Light grey as you wash it with salt water regularly.

Epoxy coating should have been done on the bare teak before the layers of varnish go on I think.

ciao!
Nick.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Exile

Following up on this informative thread, I'm finally beyond my own Bristol Finish fiasco (seductive advertising) but am not wild about Cetol. Went with Epifanes and lost count on the number of coats applied to my cap & rub rails. Hoping that a couple of maintenance coats once a year will prevent a repeat. As Rebel Heart pointed out, too many other priorities on & off the boat to go through that again. If this doesn't work, I'd be interested in knowing more about the epoxy seal paint that Minaret mentioned, e.g., does it last longer, require fewer coats, what colors could work? I could be wrong, but my understanding is that letting it all go to bare teak will turn it all black and cause the bungs to pop out.

Epifanes will "work" fine, it's just that it's a traditional varnish and as such doesn't have great longevity. A coat or two every year will make a huge difference, but it will still start to fail around joints in less than five years unless you keep it under canvas covers. If you are an experienced brightworker and know how to do a patch, you can extend the life of a coating by a couple of years by fixing the first failed joints, but it becomes a diminishing return pretty quickly once joints begin to fail. This is why the only real long-term solution for varnish is a polyurethane topcoat, which is a whole different can of worms and quite time-consuming and expensive. The process of epoxy sealing and then painting I mentioned does cure the problem forever, but it is probably at least as much work as a varnish job to get done. Essentially, strip all varnish, sand, epoxy seal with a split coat, apply 4-5 coats of straight epoxy chemical bonded to the sealer, and sand out nicely. Then prime, prep, and paint. This finish will last at least ten years, and when it does begin to fail you can patch any failed seams easily and slap on a fresh topcoat of LPU and you're good for another ten years. I did my last boat, pictured earlier, entirely by brush. It was a lot of work. The obvious drawback is that if you ever want to strip it and revarnish you are pretty much screwed, as your only option will be sanding it off.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Black? Light grey as you wash it with salt water regularly.

ciao!
Nick.

True, but I live far from the boat right now (2K miles) and have seen the blackish mold develop on neighboring boats if neglected. Have also seen the bungs pop out -- maybe re-attach with a bit of epoxy?? Funny, I don't have teak decks but the nicest ones I have seen are on boats with owners who claim they do almost nothing, except for the occasional saltwater wash with a soft brush. Why wouldn't this work on a teak caprail? I must confess to having some vanity about my boat's aesthetics, but keeping up with the bright work with varnish no longer seems tenable.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by cburger

We are currently running a test on a friends Cape Dory, some teak finished in the very very, expensive Epiphanes, some finished with the very inexpensive Mclosky's Man O War spar varnish $18.00 per quart. two years in an no disernable difference exept in the wallet.

Yep... in 30 years the two best products I've used (and both far from perfect!) were McClosky's and Varathane Exterior... Surprising, both were the cheap stuff compared with "Yacht" finishes.... My Dad told me they used Varathane on the High School basketball floor... Epiphanes was nice but no better performing, Cetal was terrible and didnt last as long...

[SV Demeter]

I read this thread with interest as I too have tried most products in search of the holy grail of varnish. My last two boats were slathered in milky orange cetol and the only thing it helped with was purchase price negotiations... The one thing I have learned in this crusade is that there is no free lunch. If you want great looking brightwork you must do it right and stick with it. Im doing a little now but like Rebel Heart my wife and I are planning on taking off this year with 2 kids.

As crazy as this may sound Im actually planning to do the brightwork while cruising. Im focusing on more important systems now before we go but its one of the things Im actually looking forward to doing while cruising. For me brightwork is a labor of love and I take pride in doing it. Many of my friends who are already cruising do the same. Of course Your Mileage May Vary, YMMV. Its not everyones cup of tea but I enjoy brightwork.

One thing I would be interested in hearing is recommendations for any good books on brightwork tricks of the trade. Ive been varnishing my boats for 20 years but Im still a bit of a hack..

[sdowney717]

holy grail of varnish might end with coelean
http://www.coelan.com/72d45e8fbf31c3...oat/index.html

expensive clear polyurethane coating which they said will last at least 10 years.

For me I just use this cheap Behr Premium Transparent Weatherproofing Wood Finish fence and deck coating water based, CEDAR color from the Home Depot.

You will see many bad reviews when painted on PT pine decking but I get good results on mahogany and teak, ESPECIALLY when it is vertical wood.

The coating has stayed on my teak swim platform now looking good for 6 months. It will need a fresh coat likely after a year. That will be easy to do.

The transom and doors like great after 6 months with full sun striking them in the AM. Looks as good as the day I applied it.

I also painted it on some exterior mahogany slat deck furniture and it looks good still going on a year now in the partial shade.

Stuff goes on milky brown colored and dries to rich oily look. That shinier look does fade eventually but the color remains and still beads up the water. Has not peeled. This is not like varnish.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

holy grail of varnish might end with coelean
http://www.coelan.com/72d45e8fbf31c3...oat/index.html

expensive clear polyurethane coating which they said will last at least 10 years.

To me this is the holy grail-The Ultimate Brightwork System by US Paints, manufacterers of Awlgrip. It is a varnish formula which allows you to overcoat with clear LPU without waiting the usual 30 day minimum to prevent solvent retention. You can also stack on up to 3 coats a day with no sanding. It's awesome.



http://www.awlgrip.com/ProdLit/Awlgr...uide%206pp.pdf

Marine Supplies Store, Marine supply, Boating supply, Equipment

[cburger]

Originally Posted by SV Demeter

One thing I would be interested in hearing is recommendations for any good books on brightwork tricks of the trade. Ive been varnishing my boats for 20 years but Im still a bit of a hack..

High Quality foam brushes from Jen Mfg. Co. for application.

[jward]

I've used Cetol with fairly good results. Last 3 years, however, I've used Bristol Finish. Looks as good today as it did when I applied it. I'm in the New Orleans area- so usually warm and muggy. I can tell just from the feel of it that removing it will be quite a job. It seems to have a much harder and more durable finish compared to Cetol. And seems to stand up to UV much better than Cetol. Unfortunately, I suspect the only way to really remove BF completely is scrapping and sanding.