Removing emulsified water from diesel

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

you serious? you boil the diesel?!?!?! Isnt diesel and heat together a bit dangerous ? at 500C, diesel explodes for sure.

Well I dont know what datmbn does but heating diesel to say 110C does not cause it to boil. You have to get to somewhere around 180 C before it boils.

A candle and heat can be dangerous but most of us get by OK

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Well I dont know what datmbn does but heating diesel to say 110C does not cause it to boil. You have to get to somewhere around 180 C before it boils.

A candle and heat can be dangerous but most of us get by OK

good to know. I try it next time when on boat and try scaring my wife.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

good to know. I try it next time when on boat and try scaring my wife.

Maybe next time when you are boiling eggs

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Maybe next time when you are boiling eggs

that's one way to benefit from diesel heating.

another one is when fire & hot, less volatile than petrol so lesser chance of shtf.

another when one wants to remove water from diesel.

Is there any other practical reason heating diesel is useful ?

Maybe cook some machine parts in diesel to clean them ?

[Wotname]

Some of us love it's fragrance so you use it as incense, just like other essential oils

[datmbn]

If you dont like to heat it so mutch just heat it in an closeable can and aply some vakum to it with an vacumcleaner
The water shud evapurate at ap 60c

This is also usfull when you try to dry out som wet corestrukture

Regards mats

[Glenn.Brooks]

Racor filters will clean the fuel and trap the emulsified water. They work with a three stage action, one stage includes a centrifuge action than spins out the water and solids, another is a 1micron filter that is to small to allow h2o molecules to pass through- which also dribble down into the sediment bowl in the filter.

You can rig up a small hand drill driven pump with a long length of rubber or plastic tubing on one end of the filter, and a straight metal brake line to fit into the bottom of your tank. Connect the hose through the racor filter, and feed the output back into the tank. Pump away merrily until no more junk shows up in your filter sediment bowl.

Then mount the racor inline in your boat, and use it all the time your engine is operating.




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[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Glenn.Brooks

Racor filters will clean the fuel and trap the emulsified water. They work with a three stage action, one stage includes a centrifuge action than spins out the water and solids, another is a 1micron filter that is to small to allow h2o molecules to pass through- which also dribble down into the sediment bowl in the filter.......
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You are kidding us aren't you.....
You must be; you can't believe a molecule of H2O is anywhere near as big as 1 micron.

I have yet to see a 1 micron Racor filter element although that isn't to say they don't exist; just they would be very uncommon. Be assured though that a molecule of water will easily pass though a 1 micron filter.

[Oceanride007]

I used to be a Marine Engineer,
If you are in remote area where fuel disposal/replacement is a problem, Suggest any of the following soluitions:
Fuel purification (centrifuge) have heard of portable units on the back of a truck or work vessel.
Settling in a day tank for several days. (A proper day tank has a water drain below fuel suction. You can circulate all the fuel many times. Drain off often. Some heat would help.
On commercial vessels Heating of fuel and centrifuge is done 24/7.

[Glenn.Brooks]

Originally Posted by Wotname

You are kidding us aren't you.....

You must be; you can't believe a molecule of H2O is anywhere near as big as 1 micron.



I have yet to see a 1 micron Racor filter element although that isn't to say they don't exist; just they would be very uncommon. Be assured though that a molecule of water will easily pass though a 1 micron filter.

NO I wasn't kidding you. I was simply mistaken. the smallest filters they sell are 2 micron size, and water molecules seem to be generally .000275 microns in size - e.g. 2.75 angstroms.


The point is - Racor filters do a great job separating water and contaminates from fuel. The original poster could solve his fuel cleaning problems with one of the filters.

Here is some interesting reading from the company

http://www.parker.com/literature/Rac...02011%20HQ.pdf




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[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Glenn.Brooks

NO I wasn't kidding you. I was simply mistaken. the smallest filters they sell are 2 micron size, and water molecules seem to be generally .000275 microns in size - e.g. 2.75 angstroms.


The point is - Racor filters do a great job separating water and contaminates from fuel. The original poster could solve his fuel cleaning problems with one of the filters.

Here is some interesting reading from the company

http://www.parker.com/literature/Rac...02011%20HQ.pdf




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Mistaken…
Well that is certainly something I can understand; not only can I spot other people's mistakes, I can even make my own

Thanks for the link, quite informative

[Erasmuss]

Just a qualifier,
My name is Eric Rasmussen. I was a Filtration / Decontamination Engineer for The Oil Polishing Company in National City, California for 20 Years ... We not only coined the term " Polishing " we also designed and built all of the Equipment that was sold and Franchised under the name of Fuel Oil Polishing of North America.

Although we had designed & built equipment for the DOD we ourselves had never considered Small Boat Diesel Restoration to be a viable business avenue for our Services Department. It did work great for small Owner/ Operators though and at least one to this day still advertises in the LOG here in San Diego.

Raycor, Velcon it really doesn't matter who's Coalescing (Hydrophobic) element you use, most are capable of removing emulsified water down to 50 ppm. The key is Velocity ... Coalescing elements are Velocity Sensitive ! The second Key is you must Draw through these elements to achieve the best one pass efficiency. If your fuel is going thru the pump before the filter you are only making matters worse by strengthening the emulsification.

The Aquabloc elements mentioned - if my memory serves me correctly are Hydrophilic.
They absorb water and most elements of this type are designed to also act as a fuse, shutting off flow when completely saturated with water. Most of these elements use the same adsorbents used in diapers or kotex.

We were considered Masters in the Black Arts of Fitration ... Lol

We built some of the smallest Vacuum Distillation Equipment ever operated ... Most of which for the DOD and our own Services Dept. ... I have often thought this would be the best method for dealing with Water in Diesel. Only problem is it's not a One Pass method. The Equipment we produced for Diesel Fuel Purification was designed to decontaminate fuel from a worst case condition to Ultra Pure in a single pass for purposes of efficiency or operational demands.

In addition Vacuum Distallation is much more complex and expensive to build - when done correctly. An advantage to this process is No consumables... With the exception of power.

Typically when additive packages Have been used it makes the situation much more difficult. You would be forced to use a mix of methods including Clay or Floculants to get where you want to be.

Long story short, these are all expensive options that highly out weigh the cost of Thirty Gallons of Diesel.

I agree that a properly sized and installed Racor or Dahl ( which we almost purchased that company many moons back ) would serve your engine well.

I would suggest against using Silica Gel or Cat Litter for a number of reasons but most of all would be the submicronic particle loading that you will not be able to remove with inexpensive filters and the nature of which would be cosidered a Hard to Fairly Hard Contaminate.

Again if you were to head in that direction Molecular Sieve would be the product of choice but still has the contaminate issue as well.

Again all of these options are not cheap.

Sincerely,
Eric

[Aloha_float]

Hydrosorb filters with a water separator - I can recommend an additive that will work but it always gets me in trouble when I do.

[Erasmuss]

If your going to use an adsorption filter of any make and brand the only thing I can say is you want to use it after your coalescing filter(s).

If I was going to use one I'd have two plumbed and valved in parallel to one another so in a worst case scenario you could switch to a fresh one if your primary shut off - which is what they do ! They are truly meant for Fuel Transfer Applications ! These are " Fail Safe " Fuel Transfer Filters ... They are not meant as Supply Filters for critical applications at the very least.

I once examined an installation of a Fuse Filter that had been installed on the supply line to an Emergency Diesel Generator for a Hospital ! Obviously that Engineer(s) needed some more training and a really good Liability Policy. How it got past the initial inspections and commissioning was beyond me.

If the filter shuts down because it has adsorbed all the water it's capable of it swells up internally and shuts the flow off thus shutting down your engine. And if Murphy's in full force, that probably happens when you most need your engine.

You are best to insure the quality of fuel being brought on board and the management of said fuel while in storage. A water fuse filter can be just as dangerous as the contaminant it's designed to capture. Use it in the application it's meant to be used.

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a Coast Guard Rule in the use of these types of fuel filters and I also wouldn't be surprised if it is forbidden on the supply line to a main propulsion engine.

Personally I wouldn't use one except in fuel delivery or transfer applications. Even with the example I provided above of a parallel valved arrangement, if a filter in use shuts off, your engine shuts off ... That's your notice you need to switch ... In the meantime your engine is down and you need to sneak into the engine compartment to swing valves and then get back to the helm and restart your engine(s) ... Again probably at the most inconvenient timing !