Repairing teak & holly cabin sole

[Qayaq]

Look up Thomas Johnson antique furniture restorations on Utube and check his playlists, I'm sure that there will be something there that will help. I think its pretty good.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by rls8r

I am trying to repair some pieces of teak & holly cabin sole. The sole is not veneer - it's 3/4" tongue & groove teak and holly. Does anyone know the best way to separate the teak and holly pieces? I've tried putting heat on the sole, but the wood starts to char before the glue softens. Any advice on what kind of liquid glue softener I can dribble down the grooves to loosen the glue - and if that's a reasonable way to go about things? Thanks.

If is because of an unsightly surface, marring, I would be tempted to leave the tongue and groove. Route out to that point and glue in a new surface piece.

[Aeolus6]

As a group resorcinol adhesives are very toxic.
Resorcinol adhesives are either Phenol or Cresol based.

In either case, what follows below is a list of symptoms of Poisoning by Phenol or Cresol Compounds:
- Highly corrosive.
- Caustic eye, skin, mouth and gastrointestinal injuries.
- Nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea.
- Hypotension
- myocardial failure
- pulmonary edema
- neurological changes
- liver toxicity
- renal toxicity
- methemoglobinemia
- RBC hemolysis.

Above information sourced from: Group Symptoms: Recognition and Management of Pesticide Poisoning, 5th edition, U.S. EPA, Chapter 19.

Use of a high quality, well fitted particulate mask and sufficient spare cannisters are an important pre-requisite to protect yourself as resorcinol powder is very finely milled and easily forms an inhalable toxic aerosol even when opening the can.

Good luck on your B-40, they're lovely vessels.

[dakno]

The Island Packets I have been aboard had real teak and holly planks, not veneer . Maybe go to a IP owners site for ideas. Surely cuting, scabbing is what will happen.

[coastalexplorer]

Cascamite and Cascophen were originally developed by the Bordon chemical company. They used to sell their products by the 45 gallon barrel or the rail car load. Dr Scott at the Vancouver office that was on Rand Ave in Marpole Vancouver was nice enough to supply me with five gallon bucket 'samples'.


However in 2005 Hexion was formed through the merger of Borden Chemicals, Resolution Performance Products, and Resolution Specialty Materials, and the acquisition of Bakelite AG. In 2010, the parent holding companies of Momentive Performance Materials Inc. and Hexion Specialty Chemicals Inc. merged to form Momentive Performance Materials Holdings LLC .[1] In 2015, this combined company renamed itself to Hexion Inc. The significance of this which is no doubt not the complete story: Is I have never found a way to buy directly from them. they did however sell their minimum quantities to some re-packaging companies. (marine and aviation suppliers)



Cascamite was thus sold for years as UF 109. Many people bought it for boat building. however contrary to popular belief it is only a water resistant glue, Although you would probably have to soak it in water for a month to make it let go.



Cascophen is a truly waterproof glue that will withstand five minutes in boiling water.

Back in the day before the Vancouver facility closed Dr Scott had me meet with Mr. Eric Hart who ran their testing lab. After My first meeting; which was a clash of two worlds... I went back up stairs to Dr Scott's office; I complained that no common wood worker in a regular local shop was going to follow Eric harts process requirements. That is when I was told you have the listen to Eric we use this product to laminate helicopter rotors. I was given the material on the condition that I submitted a sample for testing.



So here is the summery of points made down in the laboratory.
1 The glue has a three month shelf life, (the powder activator fails first)

2 The measurements of liquid to powder activator by weight had to be meticulously accurate.
3 The mechanical mixing time must also be followed. and allowed to let stand prior to use. could be chilled to increase the working time.

4 wood preparation, surfaces must NOT be sanded! use a planer that preferably has three knives in the cutter head, then dressed with a sharp fine set hand plane. followed by a cabinet scraper. (that one had me thinking wow! extreme...not generally happening in normal shop practice?)


Then there was the explanation of the three stages of gluing.... Eric stated the the formulation had to have more solvents in the product than He really wanted in order to make it easier to spread. So there was the open time of ten minutes to allow time for the solvents to evaporate. but before a skin could form the joint should be closed to exclude the exposure to air. But with out any closing pressure. This second stage was called the 'relax time' which gives time for the product to soak into the wood. The third stage was the clamping pressure. 300 PSI for Soft wood and 600 psi for hardwoods.


Back at the works we achieved the initial push with a 100 ton hydraulic press and then held the force with clamps made from one inch steel plates and 1 inch diameter ready rod. and yes we passed their test. Which failed in the wood fiber not the joint.



IF Hinckley did their work properly using the Cascophen the only truly waterproof glue? There would be no point in telling a subsequent boat owner about their process.



BTW Mr, Hart claimed the epoxy is not a glue. I have been thinking about that one for years... but it is very true that there are some materials it will not stick too.

[tdoster]

If only the Holy is bad, which usually happens well before the teak, there are some methods. Very small areas, use the Holy wood filler. After a few coats of varnish, you would never know it is there. Trick use scotch tape on the sides and slice out after the filler dries. I have also seen vinyl pin stripe used before when a deep sand was required to bring the wood back and there is no room to route back up the inlay. You can also lay strips back in if there if it is still deep enough. You have to be very careful and patient digging the old strip out and staining to match the wear on the other boards. Other methods for curved up areas are veneer applications. If it is not a traffic area and the substrate is good, consider veneer over the solid and use 1/4" quarter round strip to break between the veneer and solid beveled up to match - or use the 3M sticky back (last resort). It is really difficult to pull glued tongue and groove out without being destructive. It was really put in there to last a lifetime, which is why they used solid over the crappy 1/4 veneer others do. If you start trying to pull it up, you could be opening a can of worms in my opinion, avoid if you can unless you want to do a full section. For what it's worth.

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by Aeolus6

As a group resorcinol adhesives are very toxic.
Resorcinol adhesives are either Phenol or Cresol based.

In either case, what follows below is a list of symptoms of Poisoning by Phenol or Cresol Compounds:
- Highly corrosive.
- Caustic eye, skin, mouth and gastrointestinal injuries.
- Nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea.
- Hypotension
- myocardial failure
- pulmonary edema
- neurological changes
- liver toxicity
- renal toxicity
- methemoglobinemia
- RBC hemolysis.

Above information sourced from: Group Symptoms: Recognition and Management of Pesticide Poisoning, 5th edition, U.S. EPA, Chapter 19.

Use of a high quality, well fitted particulate mask and sufficient spare cannisters are an important pre-requisite to protect yourself as resorcinol powder is very finely milled and easily forms an inhalable toxic aerosol even when opening the can.

Good luck on your B-40, they're lovely vessels.

No wonder I'm crazy !! 40 years ago I helped build the strip planked plug for the Adams 10. Used resorcinol glue for the whole project. No gloves, face masks etc. We were almost eating the stuff. Happy to still be here I guess.

[psk125]

Originally Posted by glcalahan

Hello

Isn't most teak and holly cabin sole veneer??

glc

Many production boats use teak & holly veneer plywood for their cabin soles. The OP has a Hinckley. It has SOLID WOOD teak and holly 3/4" thick. Hinckley's are not your typical production boat.

[psk125]

Another idea for ris8r - maybe simply put the damaged piece you need opened up through a table saw. If you cut through the center of a holly strip, you should be able to add more or replace it fairly easily (if you can find the new wood you need in the right thickness.)

[Sand crab]

I'm a retired master carpenter/builder/contractor. Just cut it out with a very sharp chisel. Flooring installers do this all the time on repairs.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

...Just cut it out with a very sharp chisel...

Or use a router.

Install with epoxy glue.

[Sand crab]

A router is hard to control for a fine cut in the middle of the wood and makes a mess. You can attach some sort of guide but by then I would have the wood removed with my chisel anyway.


Epoxy, yes.

[finefurn]

Use a Laminate Trimmer (A small Router) fitted with a mortising bit. Clamp a fence to guide the trimmer. Set the depth of cut roughly about 1/8", make addition passes if needed to remove the all damaged wood. You don't need to remove the entire piece, Clean up the ends of the cut with a sharp chisel. Fit a new piece of wood to the just cut mortise.

[Sand crab]

I don't know how a fence would help you cut a piece out of the floor. You have to anchor it down somehow and get an exact perfect alignment to the wood you want to remove. Or just grab a chisel and be done 10 minutes ago....

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I don't know how a fence would help you cut a piece out of the floor...

It's not hard to figure out. I attach a strip of wood using 2 very fine brad nails, the holes of which are easy to hide later. A couple pieces of scrap, cut precisely to size, are used to position the "fence" the proper distance to locate the router bit.