Replace Rudder w/ Wheel?

[Don C L]

Well, I'd say converting from a tiller to a wheel is fine if you want to, in fact here is a Morgan 28 with one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aLK67uZIWM

.
Though I wouldn't do it personally, I've seen wheels on small boats that seemed to work fine. The thing is you do add a good deal of complexity, i.e. something else that can got wrong, especially in something pretty important. A good portion of cockpit floor will be taken up by the pedestal and access to the quadrant will be difficult. I saw a boat once that had sailed from San Francisco to LA. I think it was a Catalina 32. The guy said it was kinda hard to steer but it was a hassle to get in to check the cable and quadrant. The cable was down to its last 2 or 3 strands when I saw it in the yard getting it fixed. Make sure you have a good access for the emergency tiller.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Adelie

That isn't going to happen.

There are plenty of folks that really don't want to be tracked on the internet, I for one. I have a less than completely sane ex-wife and I now have children. My footprint on the internet is very light for this reason.

If people want to share personal info, that's fine. If they don't that's also fine.
Personal info include general location and boat.

Fair enough, I hadn't actually considered that perspective.
I must say in my defence that I have never experienced that problem, I lost my wife many years ago after years of ill health so never having experienced any acrimony I hadn't thought along those lines.

[Searles]

There is no reason ,apart from cost ,not to fit wheel steering to a 28 ft er the gear to do so is off the shelf ,here in oz there are a number of compass 29s plus Duncanson 29 with wheel steering ,horses for courses .⛵️⚓️

[Pegu Club]

Originally Posted by ROCKYIV

I was wondering if a MORGAN 28 that’s currently a rudder boat can be converted into wheel steering?

I’ll assume you mean “ tiller” vs rudder, yes you can convert to a wheel but it won’t be economical, our 1977 Bristol 29.9 came OEM with a wheel, I sometimes wish it had a tiller, but have become used to the wheel, imo it’s not worth the time and energy to do that conversation.

Fair winds

[Calif.Ted]

I've been exposed to several wheel conversions, most recently while assisting a local non-profit with a donated boat and none functioned well. The leverage supplied by a tiller is replaced in a wheel system with a large diameter wheel and a large diameter steering quadrant. There is no room for either on a conversion so they require extreme effort, takes both hands to move the wheel. A proper wheel requires only light effort, should be able to "spin" with one hand. A boat designed for a wheel will have a T shaped cockpit to accommodate the large wheel.
I'm aware of a couple of boats with conversions in my harbor and they all change hands every couple years as the new owners figure out they are a PITA to steer.

[ROCKYIV]

This is very helpful and will take to heart. I’m really glad I found this site.
New question, the MORGAN 28 I recently acquired originally had an inboard and now has an outboard. I’m thinking of making a change but wondered how much HP is best suggested? I had a SeaFarer 29 and used a 25hp Johnson ob. Suggestion?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by ROCKYIV

This is very helpful and will take to heart. I’m really glad I found this site.
New question, the MORGAN 28 I recently acquired originally had an inboard and now has an outboard. I’m thinking of making a change but wondered how much HP is best suggested? I had a SeaFarer 29 and used a 25hp Johnson ob. Suggestion?

A 16 - 20hp diesel engine would be a good swop for the outboard and work properly, not constantly breaking the surface and loosing drive when its rough.

Pete

[ROCKYIV]

Pete ….. Sounds like you are speaking about putting an inboard diesel back in the boat. Yes?

[TrentePieds]

Rocky:

Your boat is going to be about 9K lbs. laden displacement, i.e about 4½ tons. Rule of thumb for motor size is this: 1) for coming and going in a marina, sailing as soon as you are clear of the marina limits: 2HP/ton, in you case 10 HP. 2) For the occasionalong longish motor in benign water and benign weather: 3HP/ton, on your case 15HP.
For serious motoring either because the sea is majorly lumpy and the wind is strongish, say 20knots, on the nose: 4HP/ton, in your case 20HP.

Installing a Beta 20 where the Atomic Used to be will cost you about US$15K including new stern gear and prop.

Be wary of too large an eggbeater on the transom. Your boat will NOT handle well if you have the weight of a 25HP eggbeater that far aft of the centre of flotation.

If the motor is just for marina work a 9.9HP "eggbeater" will do. You already have a motor bracket you say. Used 9.9 Johnsons are easy to come by and cheap. The are also a gamble.

Best

TrentePieds

[ROCKYIV]

No wonder I got such a “good deal” on “SeaWolfe”. Of well. One more step at a time. ⛵️⛵️

[TrentePieds]

Rocky:

We were distracted from the matter of wheel v. tiller.

IMO a tiller is ALWAYS to be preferred in a sailing vessel unless the vessel is of a size where the forces acting on the rudder and transmitted to the tiller become so great that one man/woman cannot handle them. In forty and fifty footers, the accommodation arrangements often dictate use of wheel steering, but it is to be considered a sacrifice you make in order to satisfy desiderata considered more important.

The tiller, among its other benefits, has that of being the most sensitive instrument you can possibly have for telling you when the boat is "in the grove". You will find that sailboats are at their happiest when, once the wind is on the beam of forward thereof, they heel somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees. Heeling less means that you are not carrying optimum sail, or your sails are incorrectly trimmed. Heeling more means that you are "overpressing" the boat with a cost in comfort and to the gear. Your clinometer, a cheap little instrument that is somewhat like a spirit level, only with a curved "glass", or even just a little pendulum, will tell you what your heel is.

When you heel between 10 and 15 degrees, and the boat is "balanced" correctly in terms of the sails you carry and their trim, you will find that the tiller will be vibrating slightly against your fingers. I say fingers because you DON'T grasp the tiller as you would, say, the handlebar on a motorcycle. You let your hand rest gently on the top of it with your fingers curled slightly down on the far side. You should then have to exert a few ounces of pull on the tiller to keep the boat sailing on a straight course. This need for a few ounces of pull is caused by what is called "weather helm", and this tiny amount of weather helm is desirable for safety' sake. When you have it, you know that your canvas is trimmed correctly, and that your boat is going as fast as it will go in the given conditions. You will also, as I said, feel the tiller vibrating slightly.

All this good knowledge that is immediately available to you via the tiller, is COMPLETELY destroyed by the mechanism of the steering gear in a wheel steered boat. A wheel should never be fitted unless the boat is so big that one man cannot handle the forces of the steering. When that becomes the case, somewhere above 40 tons displacement, you accept the wheel steering because there is no other reasonable option.

Over many years of teaching sailing, I've found that it is very difficult to break people of the habits they have acquired driving cars. But broken they must be. Steering a SAILING vessel in NOTHING like steering a car. Power vessels are a different story, although, again, if the vessel is a twin screw one. you don't steer a "stink pot" as you would steer a car.

IMO you little Morgan is a very nice little vessel, just the cat's pajamas for a novice. So hang around, keep telling us how you are doing, and I'm sure we can make a first-rate sailorman of you ;-)!

Cheers

TrentePieds

[Don C L]

If your boat was built for a Volvo MD7 or 6, the Beta 10 or 14 should fit and suit you well. I wouldn't think your boat would need a 16 or 20hp but if it fits, it will push you through a good headwind. What inboard did it have, or do you know? As far as outboard... a 25hp? Were you water skiing? I have a Tohatsu 9.8, my boat weighs about 8500 with all the stuff I've added... maybe more. At about half throttle, with a four bladed "power prop," I can go a little under 6 knots in calm water and get a little under 6 mpg, (so 1 gallon per hour.) There are a number of advantages to an outboard for a small boat like yours, I wouldn't necessarily give up on it yet.

[Brioche]

I sailed for many years mainly with tillers on my boats, though I also sailed on other boats with wheels, and always felt that a tiller was preferable -- however, my most recent purchase was, deliberately, for a boat that had been converted to a wheel. Reasons: 1) the admiral was to drive this one more, and would feel better with a wheel; 2) we spend little time in the marina, most of time sailing, and like the extra space in the cockpit; and 3) as I grow older, it gets harder to sit sideways holding the tiller and look forward toward the bow, and my neck gets sore.
Some things that were done on my boat, or that I have done. 1) The conversion left the rudder stem in place, and I still have a stump of a tiller that in an emergency can be popped on easily with a bolt and wingnut. 2) The stub tiller also can be driven by my autopilot. 3) The pushpit is open in back for a swim ladder. I made a small "margarita seat" that rests over the transom, so I can sit squarely in back looking forward.
Downsides to the conversion are, mainly, the lack of feel, and, especially in reverse, difficulty knowing where the rudder is situated. A mark in the middle of the wheel helps a bit with that. It is easy to handle the jib sheets from the wheel, but a bit harder to get to the mainsheet and traveller. On the other hand, it is easy to lock the wheel if you are single handing and need to do something that won't take too long.
In our 29 footer we find a Beta 14 gives us all the power we ever need, though we mainly use it for getting in and out of port.

[5BTM]

Pics of my CS 27 with wheel steering with some added "improvements" by the previous owner.

In summary, there is no room for two persons to stand in the cockpit, there is supposed to be a seat in front of the wheel which I threw out.

Who the heck takes a cockpit designeg by the head architect of Camper and Nicholson who knows a thing or two about seaworthiness and drills holes at the bottom and wraps an electrical conduit in tin foil?

Just to sit behind a wheel and stare at a screen and pretend it is an airplane.

A picture of an Ericson 27 just for comparison.

I am throwing this wheel abortion out as soon as I can, I am so sick of dealing with this don't think I will ever bother putting the mast up.

[Fore and Aft]

Rocky there's a Yanmar 2GMF diesel engine near you on Facebook for $2500. That would suit your boat.
Cheers
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...61/?ref=search