restoring hurricane damaged 40+ foot newer Catamaran

[lagunaman26]

Sure you can do this! I did the same thing with a Manta Catamaran damaged in Harvey. The catch is, I'm a professional glass guy, and I did all the labor myself, lived aboard while working, spent approximately 3000 hours and $100k for yard fees and materials. Sure I could have found a lesser cat for that price, but now I have a gorgeous 43ft Manta Catamaran that looks new and sails better than a brand new one. Before doing any glass work, prop up the boat with jack stands, all over the place even under the bridge deck to force the hull into its original shape. Just a little turn at a time. Check shape by seeing if doors and cabinets and drawers operate properly inside the boat and trim pieces look properly aligned. This can take multiple days. Do the repairs with epoxy and high quality stitched glass fabric. Re-core with foam strips which you can glue in place with thickened epoxy. Grind with 40 grit between layups. Use solid glass instead of core material below the waterline. This does add a little more weight, but will be incredibly strong. If you would like to see pics of my cat and some of the work you can visit. https://bond-voyage.blogspot.com/

Feel free to ask specific questions if you'd like some help.
Cheers
Captain Bond

[CMO Tashina]

Not sure if you're planning on getting that cat insured after the work you're thinking of doing. Insurance companies look askance at repair work not done by professionals so if you end up taking on the boat and its list of repairs be sure to thoroughly document all the work. Just my two cents!

[mstrebe]

There's a lot of good advice here. I'll add my two cents:

1) A lot of whether this is a good idea or not depends on your goals. If you're planning to retire on it and spend your life wandering around the keys, Bahamas, and Caribbean, then okay, fine. If you're thinking you're going to flip it, you're going to lose money.

2) 1/3 the non-restored value is way too high for a boat in this condition. It is currently worth the salvage value of the parts on it to a junkyard. As said, if it were actually an easy repair it would be repaired. Make your own determination as to the restored value (it's the lowest sale value you can find regardless of the quality of the work) and see what kind of equity you'll actually wind up with.

3) You'll spend more than $20K yourself in materials fixing that kind of damage. Get your own professional estimate for repairs and use that number to drive down the price if you decide to do this.

4) You won't be able to get typical insurance easily (although there are insurers who will handle you for a price), and you can't live in a Marina anywhere in the U.S. without it. Cats are also expensive to keep in marinas because of their size and end-tie requirements. If you want to pull into even a guest dock, you need insurance, and you'll have to self-insure which means putting up something in the neighborhood of a $50K cash bond. The places where you can live for free on the hook in the U.S. are almost completely gone--I know of only three on the west coast that are even remotely possible.

5) Working with fiberglass is horrible. I assume you know that, but it's just the worst. Keels on catamarans aren't the big deal that they are on monohulls but they still have to be very strong--they're what you run aground on when you hit shallows. The boat has to be able to hold its entire weight on them at a bare minimum. How would you test that when you're done?

Good luck, I wish you every success if you decide to do this sir!

[GBR134]

I’ve been involved with some top class laminators building hi-tech laminated structures usually involving the use of vacuum bags and heat cure/oven. It’s also amazing what can be done with UV curing and pre-press. They all tell me that if it’s built of glass and broken you can always rebuild it as good as original and usually better/stronger/lighter. I’ve done a lot of small scale glass repair and construction. Could I rebuild this - possibly. Would I commit a year or two of my life confident that I could rebuild it - no chance. Is it possible yes,! Can you do it no idea. Could you ruin your health and/or bankrupt yourself in the attempt definitely. Should you do it - no one can help you with that decision!

[Sailing August]

I've seen the hurricane damaged CATs you are talking about on line. The keels have been folded or pushed up in the hull. All of this can be fixed but don't over pay for the boat. The folded keels are extensive structural repairs.
Don't forget that the insurance companies have already totaled these boats. They are paid for. There are many con men out there trying to hock these totaled boats for big money. Don't over pay for these wrecks. I saw one hurricane damaged and totaled CAT with bent keels they were trying to sell for $100k. ARE YOU KIDDING ME! That boat is not worth more than $10k in its current condition. They will tell you "Well....this CAT is worth $350k when its like new."......that's BS. That vessel will never be worth that again or even "like new" and it might not even be insurable.
Don't buy into their BS......they will play on your dreams to try and get you to waaaaaay overpay for these damaged boats. Its not worth it. For $100k you can get a cursing ready AMEL 46 that is ready to set sail around the world without 2 years of hard labor......just an example.
Don't over pay for these wrecked sail boats.
Good luck. Please let us know how it turns out.

[sailingchiro]

Valleyweather, I purchased my smaller Lagoon cat 37' for $23k in the states as a repossession with no hull damage. A new mast and rigging was roughly $16k. New engines $20k. She was not a hurricane boat but rather, the mast hit a bridge. I just wanted new engines (originals had 8000 hours).

Another example of a boat I would purchase if wanted was a 48' Catana with sound hulls and good mast. Had not looked at it but owner doubted the motors were good. (They were not seized but rather sat a long time) All the problems were cosmetic and weather abuse, had been sitting in yard for over 10 years. The owner wanted $72k or best offer. It was in the states. The money the boat needed were interior, motors, sails, and rigging. And alot of cleaning. All items that would need replacing on a 20 year old boat. Still this boat would take another $50-75k with owner's labor and time. But she could be in the water sooner and the owner most importantly would "trust her".
There are deals to be had.
I am guessing the boat is a Fontaine Pajot with cored hull. Personally, I would find "the" guy to repair back to Fontaines specification while working at home to pay for it. Then go down after repair to fit the boat out. My mast was $11k plus rigging for a new mast in Florida. Just FYI. I am guessing for $20k you are getting mast and rigging. I personally would not trust that rigging if the prior boat was demasted.

After keel repair, get the motors running and get back to the states to work on boat at your leisure. I am guessing the boat is in the islands. Find the deals as they come up. Example: buy a sailrite sewing machine and build your own sails from new bigger sails that were never used. I did. Find a used mast for $5-7k and have new rigging. Learn your electrical and replace as needed.

Have the survey "after" repair for insurance purposes. $20k repair for all the fiberglass work seems reasonable. you can either work a couple months in your profession to pay for the work or do the work yourself in 3-4 months and always second guessing your self. I would bet you would have $8-10k in supplies, travel, living expenses, mistakes, learning curve, shipping supplies, etc. as DIY. Only saving $10-12k in labor. It is easier to inspect someone else's work than your own.

In my experience with working with fiberglassing, voids/dry cloth are deadly and weak and are unavoidable in my case. If that boat bounced around as much as it seems, I can guarantee bulk head damage which means taking the interior out to inspect. Find "the" guy before purchase to repair (references, contract for repair, time to repair and any overages needed).

When I had my boat painted, I had the painter give me pictures of progress before sending him a check each week with the bulk paid after work.

The stress worrying about your keel repair 1000 miles from shore is over whelming, at least it would be for me.

[Thumbs Up]

The ad for the boat on Yachthub states that the gearboxes (saildrives?) have been removed. I wonder what else is missing. Bahamas has a high cost of living. Look at the you tube videos of the destruction from Dorian. This looks like a tough and expensive project!

[Cheechako]

What kind of keels? Doesn't sound too bad. You may even ask if you need keels? Depending on your goals. Don't underestimate boat work like this though. Figure it will be 4 x the work you may estimate.

Wait.. no engines? need more info.

[Mynard]

Just some personal experience I would like to share with the OP.



I have looked at doing Exactly this type of endeavor. It looked like one of the only options to get into a half decent Catamaran at a good entry price. I ended up doing a LOT of research, bearing in mind that I am also a very hands on person, with a wealth of knowledge and expertise in the family from the composite end all the down to Mechanical. At one stage I even thought of building my own from scratch, like the Australian from "Life on the hulls". :-)



Done about 2-3 years worth of looking around and researching and visiting boat yards and eventually in all my searches (while saving up every spare penny) I came across a really well priced on the water vessel that could actually sail as well. Granted it was a lot of searching and saving.


I now have a vessel that is on the water and was sailed on her own hulls to my local port. I am now busy with a LOT of refit and maintenance and revamp, from structural and mechanical all the way to cosmetic. in the end of the day I'll have a vessel that is personal to me as well. All with many hours of my own hard labor. It's a real good hobby and a nice feeling to do something like this. I have the benefit of being able to take her out every so often when a working weekend just wants to be a relaxing weekend.


I was also inspired by Parley Revival, and in one of their last episodes they mentioned that after all that work was done, they spent just about the same amount of money as they would have on a good condition second hand vessel, and that was not counting their man hours in labor. (which affirmed my decision as being the right one)


everything in fixing a boat is usually estimated wrong, but not to your benefit, usually at rates you never even thought of budgeting for.


wishing you all the best in your decision and hope you find a true diamond in the rough.


~M~

[valleyweather]

Man, really great advice in this forum! Thank you all for so much time and thought, I do appreciate it. I am not looking to have my ideas validated, but looking for what I read, sound advice, and some detailed great ideas. I will keep looking, and still consider this boat, but not before getting full estimates on repair. Maybe I will be able to buy the Cat mentioned for much less if repairs are doable $$ wise for me, but with this advice I am reading, will be even more discerning of what I am dealing with. I will also look to see what other deals may be out there. I do not have to have a 40' boat. I have been living in a small Sprinter Van for 3 years now (as of April 6).

I am 51 y/o, but I am in great health due to some "extreme" health practices, plus I am quite free (when allowed to travel: CV-19), and can work from anywhere I have internet as I am a weather consultant. I will be documenting all that I do (or we do), in video. If anyone knows of other good deals on blue-water catamarans (I have been looking at the Lagoon TPI's also, like the quality), or has more advice, I welcome it. I will not be jumping on anything yet, so will keep reading/ studying.

Check my profile for pics of my current van/ home, and if you see me out sailing say hi! I am not going to wait 2 years to sail, so if the boat is to take that long and I know this, I will not attempt the repair.

[Cadence]

It appears to be the consensus of opinion that this would be a no brainer. I hope it isn't one of those things where advice is asked and disregarded.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by valleyweather

Hi, am looking at a "cheap" deal on hurricane damaged newer Catamaran.

I am "handy", own a 2004 sprinter van that I have lived in for 3+ years, work on everything mostly by myself, repairs, etc., can watch YouTube and find most instructions on how to move my hands and apply what is needed to repair stuff... blah blah blah

so the boat is priced at 1/3 of its restored value. Both keels were either broke loose or pushed into the hull, as this thing was blown from the dry dock stands. It has no water damage though, as in it was not submerged. It was demasted. It needs extensive fiberglass work. According to the seller, fiberglass repair is estimated at $20k, or $3k in materials and my work. I opt for my work and the $3k. There is a 5 year old mast available from a similar boat for $20k. There is some inside damage, damage to roof from falling mast, lifelines damaged, diesel motors work good, a/c and electrical/ electronics all work good. windlass, chain, anchor ~ good condition.

Any advice? In these current times, there is not much else to do but to try and turn this back into a useable boat.

I can live on the boat while fixing according to the seller.

Thanks!

Sounds like an awful big job - I'd take anything this seller tells you with a gain of salt. $20,000 sounds like fairy tale to me. "I can live on the boat while fixing according to the seller." You'd be better off living in your van - living on the hard in a fiberglass infested area would suck big time.

You didn't mention the brand of this boat but all the newer higher end cats tend to be a bit larger than 40'. If this is just for your own use, maybe it's doable, but don't expect any profit from this venture. Maybe wait until after the next hurricane season and be "Johnny on the spot" for any good deals that may pop up. You have to be quick as all the good deals go rather quickly. If this were a good deal it'd been sold by now.

[kevinjilliana]

Surely the insurance company have already "written off" this boat or have covered the cost of the repairs. If it has been written off it is the property of the insurance company.
If the boat has been written off it can never again be legally insured. Bargepole comes to mind. Sail carefully my friend

[Boat Guy]

@sailingchiro - Where did you find a repo?


Where's a good place to look for deals?

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by kevinjilliana

Surely the insurance company have already "written off" this boat or have covered the cost of the repairs. If it has been written off it is the property of the insurance company.
If the boat has been written off it can never again be legally insured. Bargepole comes to mind. Sail carefully my friend

I'm not sure about that. People buy salvaged cars and boats in the states and get insurance.