Rudder and Autopilot

[Stujac]

Hi, Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes ....

I bought my Hanse 470 2 years ago and have been reading stories about boats that have lost their rudder on passages.

Does anyone know what I need to look for when evaluating by Rudder Post and Auto Pilot system?

The boat has a B&G Zeus MFD and a Simrad Auto Pilot that is 12 years old. Can someone give me some advice -- How long do Auto Pilots last and how can I tell how "healthy" it is?

On the rudder post - what should I be looking for?

Thanks in advace for any advice

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Stujac

On the rudder post - what should I be looking for?

I can't comment on your question about the autopilot.

For the rudder post - you should be looking for a professional to come to your boat and inspect it. I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$ - but if you are looking to do some passages, there are simply some things that should be looked at by professionals - at your boat.

dj

[Stujac]

Thanks. Will do.

[Benz]

I recently delivered a Hanse that had an MFD. When it went down, so did the autopilot, AIS, GPS--everything. Another boat with everything integrated to one system we wound up hand-steering for a while when one screen went bad and shut everything else down. This MFD integration is, IMO, an enormous liability, and has put me in danger twice (on other people's boats--I'll never have a system like this on mine)

My 2 cents: Make sure your autopilot can still operate when the MFD craps out, and make sure your binnacle compass light works. And if your compass is one of those silly direct-read sorts common on Euro boats, learn to steer by it BEFORE the MFD craps out. They are not intuitive to use.

As for spade rudders being lost, well, a spade rudder is a huge engineering nightmare to get right, and even when right, it's a weak link. Have it carefully inspected by a professional, and hope fof the best.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Benz

I recently delivered a Hanse that had an MFD. When it went down, so did the autopilot, AIS, GPS--everything. Another boat with everything integrated to one system we wound up hand-steering for a while when one screen went bad and shut everything else down. This MFD integration is, IMO, an enormous liability, and has put me in danger twice (on other people's boats--I'll never have a system like this on mine)

My 2 cents: Make sure your autopilot can still operate when the MFD craps out, and make sure your binnacle compass light works. And if your compass is one of those silly direct-read sorts common on Euro boats, learn to steer by it BEFORE the MFD craps out. They are not intuitive to use.

As for spade rudders being lost, well, a spade rudder is a huge engineering nightmare to get right, and even when right, it's a weak link. Have it carefully inspected by a professional, and hope fof the best.

MFD integration can work fine, but the system design has to be thought through. And importantly, you need more than 1 MFD in the system. If there's just 1, integration isn't buying you much and adds a single point of failure. If there's more than 1 display, then you gain some redundancy. If a display fails, just turn it off and if needed unplug it from the network (the network itself being the SPOF in a well designed system). Then you continue with 1 less display to use, but no functionality is lost as all of the data can still be accessed on the remaining display(s).

Basically, any electronics setup, integrated or not, requires some thought for each component about "what happens if this fails?" That means both thinking about what functionality is lost, but also what your options will be to work around the issue.

[Stujac]

thanks. Great advise!!!

[Benz]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

MFD integration can work fine, but the system design has to be thought through. And importantly, you need more than 1 MFD in the system. If there's just 1, integration isn't buying you much and adds a single point of failure. If there's more than 1 display, then you gain some redundancy. If a display fails, just turn it off and if needed unplug it from the network (the network itself being the SPOF in a well designed system). Then you continue with 1 less display to use, but no functionality is lost as all of the data can still be accessed on the remaining display(s).

Basically, any electronics setup, integrated or not, requires some thought for each component about "what happens if this fails?" That means both thinking about what functionality is lost, but also what your options will be to work around the issue.

Couldn't agree more. I just wish these two boats had done that....

[Turtle Blues]

Lots of good advise above.
Having lost a rudder I will stick to the second question.
Inspection of the support assembly during a haul-out is necessary.
Visual from diving and cleaning did not show anything and it was not loose when tried by hand. Long term corrosion (over 50 years) at the support led to shaft failure. Fortunately when it failed it dropped leaving the vertical tube intact so no water into the boat.

[Wizo]

The story of the Hanse loss of rudders was due corrosion where things were bolted to the rudder - links to the linear motor. In one case IIRC there was internal corrosion in the shaft itself not spotted in production.

As you have already been advised have it pulled and thoroughly tested by a professional.