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abacaxi · 26-02-2017, 03:59

Hi,

I just got back to my boat (HR 352) to be horrified at the sight of my rudder. I had had some work done while I was away. The lower part of the skeg was rebuilt and this required taking off the rudder; when the rudder was put back it was put back 10cm lower than before and affixed haphazardly. Photos attached.

I'm worried all the bolts (previously covered by gelcoat and antifouling) are going to rust, and seaweed and other junk will get stuck in the spaces, and that bolt that isn't tightened enough will just snap at some point. Clearly something has to change but the boat has been all antifouled and moving the rudder would require filling the holes in the current positions of the bolts.

I'm a bit at a loss at what to do being a new boat owner. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Abacaxi

**skipmac** · 26-02-2017, 05:00

I have to say that is an amazingly bad job of reinstalling the rudder. If I may ask, what part of the world was this done?

First I would certainly remove the rudder and reinstall in in the correct location. Regarding the new holes, if close inspection shows the skeg structurally good then you could just fill the holes with thickened epoxy.

One thing that would concern me. Whoever did this job did such a terrible job remounting the rudder I would be very concerned about the quality of work they did on the skeg. Was the skeg seriously damaged or was it just cosmetic? If the repair was structural and you don't feel qualified to evaluate the integrity of the repair I would call in an outside party to check it out.

Regarding rust, the bolts appear to be stainless steel so ordinary rust should not be a problem. However, where the SS bolts pass through the rudder and skeg they will be very subject to crevice corrosion. If you aren't familiar with this a simplified explanation, crevice corrosion is a kind of rusting process that happens on SS when it is in place where it stays wet or damp but does not get water flushing in and out of that place. To prevent that the bolts could be bedded and sealed to keep water out of the hole or you could use bronze or titanium bolts.

abacaxi · 26-02-2017, 05:15

Thanks Skipmac for the thorough reply.

This is in Trinidad. The quality of the rest of the work (toe rail, stanchions, keel, skeg (as far as I can tell), seems good. It was done by a different contractor, luckily.

Indeed they are stainless bolts and I was worried about crevice corrosion (though I didn't know the term

). I was thinking of putting gelcoat and antifouling over the fixture, would you not recommend that (instead of bedding the bolts)?

I think we will have to remount the rudder and do as you suggest. It's a shame that the newly repaired skeg was drilled through in the wrong place. Shocking. I'm still waiting to hear back from the yard manager and contractor about how this came to be.

When you knock on the part of the skeg and keel that was repaired the sound is more hollow than in other places, but it still sounds solid. Should I be concerned?

**skipmac** · 26-02-2017, 05:57

By the way, I didn't mention this but sure you also noticed that the rudder installation left at least one of the bolt holes unused. Another reason to redo the installation.

Regarding corrosion on the bolts, if previously the bolts were counter sunk and well covered with a good layer of gelcoat then that could be an option, but in a rudder installation that is always submerged I'm not sure how completely dry it will be. It's pretty common for rudders in older boats to fill with water which, if that happened could end up with water in the bolts.

I have to confess I am not really certain the best way to proceed with this part of the repair. If doing it myself I would probably do a bit more research and wait for an "expert" to comment. My first thought would be to lean towards titanium or bronze bolts as I mentioned. Both of those are free from crevice corrosion issues. Titanium by far the strongest and not as expensive as in the past.

Matt Johnson · 26-02-2017, 06:20

Bolts and nuts should be bronze like they were originally. This isn't an area to skimp.

Matt

**Pete7** · 26-02-2017, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Bolts and nuts should be bronze like they were originally. This isn't an area to skimp. Matt

Exactly, mine are "bolt sized" rivets which go right through the rudder and are then peened over. New ones start life as a straight bar.

Pete

**skipmac** · 26-02-2017, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Bolts and nuts should be bronze like they were originally. This isn't an area to skimp.

Matt

Definitely. Holding the rudder on is not where you want to try to save a few dollars.

rognvald · 26-02-2017, 07:23

This is an incredible "butcher job" as we say up North. Aside from the misalignment/placement issues, one never uses flathead bolts in critical applications due to potential slot distortion when torqued/untorqued and the attendant removal issues. Secondly, why stainless steel rather than bronze as others have mentioned? If this were my boat, I would be suspect of the entire repair and, if you are a novice, you will need to consult someone with credible skills. This is not acceptable and is the reason why some marine repair yards cost unknowing boat owners untold dollars and much personal grief. Do not launch your boat! Good luck and safe sailing.

Matt Johnson · 26-02-2017, 08:50

If they dropped the rudder 10cm down, what did they do to the upper bearing? How about the quadrant? Did the drill new holes through the rudder post for these too?

Check the lazarette, there may be more chaos too.
Matt

Cheechako · 26-02-2017, 09:06

As a new boat owner you learned a lesson"never have work done without being around to watch and supervise as needed."
The 10CM doesn't bother me that much, although not preferred for sure, but I would probably want to replace those bolts with Bronze.

barnakiel · 26-02-2017, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by abacaxi

... the rudder was put back it was put back 10cm lower than before and ...

Mate,

Why was the rudder put 4 inches lower than before ???

Is the rudder really 4 inches lower now?

What about the top of the shaft now?

What about the gap between the rudder's top and the hull ???

PLS expand on this 10 cm move. It sounds very odd to me.

b.

**roverhi** · 26-02-2017, 09:26

Stainless and bronze below the waterline work okay. Bronze bolts would be better but have had stainless fasteners in bronze fittings below the water line without a problem. Add a zinc to the gudgeons if you are concerned. Look at your prop which probably is bronze attached to a stainless shaft if you want an example

Looks like one of the bolts is threaded into the bronze gudgeon while all the others are through bolted. For something as important as the rudder would want all the fasteners through bolted with nuts, flat washer, and lock washers on them. I don't have much faith in nylon lock nuts after nearly losing my self steering vane and tearing up the transom when one of those 'lock' nuts didn't lock, loosened up, and fell off.

Why did they leave one bolt out??

Why is the rudder 10cm lower?? That would require drilling all new holes in the rudder or skeg. Assume the gudgeon on the rudder is the one that's inset while the one that is not inset is the skeg. Would want them to fill the holes in whichever piece is wrong, move the rudder to the proper position and redrill for the fasteners.

Did they replace the gudgeons or reuse the old ones?? The metal work is crude but the gudgeons look stout and would give me peace of mind. The lack of one fastener, Nylok nuts and what may be nuts that aren't adequately tightened would make me want to carefully go over the install and correct.

You are lucky they didn't slap antifouling all over the repair and splash the boat. At least you were able to see the questionable work. Assume the bolts are Stainless so no worry about corrosion if left unpainted. The real problem leaving them bright is they will turn into a barnacle condo.

Scaramanga F25 · 26-02-2017, 09:26

Redo it yourself or with your constant supervision.

Cheechako · 26-02-2017, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Mate,

Why was the rudder put 4 inches lower than before ???

Is the rudder really 4 inches lower now?

What about the top of the shaft now?

What about the gap between the rudder's top and the hull ???

PLS expand on this 10 cm move. It sounds very odd to me.

b.

You are right, he's got his MM off. I was thinking about .40 inch. That would be 10mm not cm.