SAIL BAGS/LAZY JACKS

[MicHughV]

My boat (Beneteau) came from the factory with the lazy jacks and sailbag already mounted on the boat. This is my third boat, but the only one that had this system.

I've hoisted the main up and down many times and simply don't care for this system at all.

There have been many times when I've had to drop the main for one reason or another when I was not exactly dead into the wind and just the flogging around will catch a batten in the lazy jacks. This situation is compounded by the fact that the halyard is led back to the cockpit and raising and lowering the main becomes a challenge, especially so as I want to run on deck to untangle a problem, etc.

I'm tempted to take the entire system off, but not practical to do so.

My other pet peeve is the modern day effort to bring all lines back into the cockpit, halyard, reefing lines, etc.
This ends up looking like spaghetti in the cockpit with lines everywhere, even inside the boat.

I am admittedly old school and my preference is to handle all lines at the mast. I've done that for years. It is simple and straightforward, and in my opinion, far easier to do it that way without the lazy jacks, and all lines led to the cockpit.

I'm just providing a contrary opinion here based on my own experience. Going on 35 years now, so I've been around the block.

People can do and have what they want on their boat, but I get the impression that sales talk, etc, drives modern day boat design and sales and not necessarily practicality. I get that designers like to keep everyone safe in the cockpit, etc, but personally, I don't see what the big deal is about leaving the cockpit.

Lastly, I have no doubt that this profusion of lines on and around the main, plus the bag is detrimental to sail performance.

Just my 2c off course.

[s/v Jedi]

I had the green one type from Doyle and hated the large flaps during sailing. I also hate the zipper.

The blue one is what I mean. So if you remove the horse blanket, the cover will not be big enough to cover the cars stacking up at the mast. This means it is nice and compact while sailing and doesn’t make you hate it.

The first one is crazy… tracks in the mast?!

I have an idea about the zippers and general construction too but of course it’s not anything like the mainstream (cheap) ones that sailmakers sell for big profits.

So where the lazy jacks attach, Doyle provides clips to keep the cover closed without using the zipper. I like that. But it’s top is two halves with a zipper in the middle… I don’t like that. I would prefer one flap at one side that hangs down on the inside so never in the way. When anchoring you just use the quick clips to close the cover somewhat. If staying put for longer, throw the flap over and tuck in on the other side then close the clips again. Maybe some extra of those clips. This eliminates the zipper which is failure point #1.

Like someone wrote you want drainage. The bottom part from Phifertex or Textilene is great. I will probably install those racks/wings on my booms next iteration, which become part of the cover and lazyjack system.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I
I have an idea about the zippers and general construction too but of course it’s not anything like the mainstream (cheap) ones that sailmakers sell for big profits.

So where the lazy jacks attach, Doyle provides clips to keep the cover closed without using the zipper. I like that. But it’s top is two halves with a zipper in the middle… I don’t like that. I would prefer one flap at one side that hangs down on the inside so never in the way. When anchoring you just use the quick clips to close the cover somewhat. If staying put for longer, throw the flap over and tuck in on the other side then close the clips again. Maybe some extra of those clips. This eliminates the zipper which is failure point #1.

Like someone wrote you want drainage. The bottom part from Phifertex or Textilene is great. I will probably install those racks/wings on my booms next iteration, which become part of the cover and lazyjack system.

Thanks guys! You have started to resolve my concerns.

The zippers worry me: how waterproof are they and if they let water in how does it drain out? If it doesn't drain out you'd

a expect mildew.

I like the idea of clips and a lot of them.

[Jimbo2010]

I don't have a zipper, about every three feet there a large velcro strap to close the two halves, but still let a little air in.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Jimbo2010

I don't have a zipper, about every three feet there a large velcro strap to close the two halves, but still let a little air in.

Sounds like a better idea, less likely to foul up and probably cheaper too

[Fore and Aft]

Coopec we have the green option, but it has the same problem we had with the lazy jack's attachment, so I removed the fiberglass batten and installed a 25mm aluminium tube. It made the top edge way stiffer and neater (don't ask about the measure twice cut once disaster with the aluminium tubes). Ours does wrap over one of the mast winches but its only two seconds to unzip the bag, hoist the main or dinghy then zip it back up again. Not hard and it kept the price down. The only thing we really needed was a drain at the bottom, but the sewn seam at the bottom of the boom bag is porous enough to drain water. We also have our boom angled just slightly downwards to help shed the rain.
This is definitely a good addition to any yacht. Last week I sailed on a 55-foot yacht with no lazy jacks or boom bag and what a mess when we lowered the main.
Cheers

[Jimbo2010]

What I did for drains with the pac in place, got a grommet kit and punched several holes along the low point on each side,

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BH4FLCE...roduct_details

[MicHughV]

I have one other problem with the system.
Could not say why, but wasps seem to like to build their nests in there.
We have a wasp here called a "mud dobber".....they build their nests using mud and seem to favor crawling inside and under the cover to build their nests.

Never had this problem with a standard main cover as it was open on the bottom.

[JPA Cate]

Jim and I made our mainsail sailbag plus lazy jacks. Big boom, 19 ft. long, so finding somewhere big enough to lay out the fabric was a bit tricky. It is the green bag type. We bought a 2nd hand SailRite, and I did the sewing, with ptfe thread, and we used grommets for the drains. The sewing machine paid for itself with that one project. We "donated" our labor.

With that in mind, my own thought if I make another is to use the Breezeway (a pvc mesh fabric) for an about 1 ft wide bottom strip on each side, for drainage and air circulation, and Sunbrella for the part of it that will get sun, no more WeatherMax for me, because I prefer the longevity of Sunbrella to making another one in 5 yrs.

I am surprised at the costs of almost 10K per sail. Our cost was roughly 850 AUD. Did not include the lazy jack costs, because we re-used them from the previous bag installation. We avoided McHughV's problem with hoisting by opening the throat of the bag by locating the blocks about 2/3 the bottom spreader length from the mast. We still have to come up to about 30 degrees off the wind to reef, but the sail comes down okay, and it is nicely captured in the bag.

I am happy with the YKK # 10 zippers, but the zip has to have a flap over it, or be made like a dress, where it is covered, or the plastic will deteriorate from UV exposure. Our zipper has a line about 2 ft. long, for Jim to zip it down to the aft end. It's a little awkward as the boom extends aft of the dodger.

Ann

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Jim and I made our mainsail sailbag plus lazy jacks. Big boom, 19 ft. long, so finding somewhere


, but the zip has to have a flap over it, or be made like a dress, where it is covered, or the plastic will deteriorate from UV exposure.


Ann

That was my intuitive concern that the zip would not stand up to the elements. I prefer the idea of straps. I do wonder how long velcro straps would stand up to the elements?


Maybe strap/ss clips is the way to go?

[markxengineerin]

Lots of good discussion, I will add one thing- it made a big difference in convenience to move the top pulleys for the lazy jacks from the sides of the mast to about 1 foot out on each spreader. This opens the "pouch" just enough to prevent my main sail car system from catching on the lazy jack lines when moving the sail up and down and not pointed into the wind, which thus enables reefing/unreefing on most points of sail, as long as the sail isn't hard up against the lower shrouds.

If doing this mod, it's important to make sure the strength of the spreader is not compromised, and not the weakest link in the system. I would rather lose a lazy jack line or a fitting vs. a spreader if something unexpected happens and the system gets overloaded due to murphy's law.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

Lots of good discussion, I will add one thing- it made a big difference in convenience to move the top pulleys for the lazy jacks from the sides of the mast to about 1 foot out on each spreader. This opens the "pouch" just enough to prevent my main sail car system from catching on the lazy jack lines when moving the sail up and down and not pointed into the wind, which thus enables reefing/unreefing on most points of sail, as long as the sail isn't hard up against the lower shrouds.

If doing this mod, it's important to make sure the strength of the spreader is not compromised, and not the weakest link in the system. I would rather lose a lazy jack line or a fitting vs. a spreader if something unexpected happens and the system gets overloaded due to murphy's law.

'
Since I'm completely out of my depth I'm inclined to go the "supply and fit" way.

I worry about how I would attache the Lazy Jack lines to the mast (or spreaders) A quick google came up with:

"Lazy jacks are usually attached to the mast for them to stay relatively same length as the boom swings from side to side. If they were on spreaders, they'd tighten or loosen as the boom moves. Anyways, if you want to attach them on spreaders with an alternative method, perhaps a hose clip around the spreader." (YBW)

Lazy jacks from spreaders or mast?

Cruisers Forumhttps://www.cruisersforum.com › forums › lazy-jacks-fro...

[Jimbo2010]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I do wonder how long velcro straps would stand up to the elements?

Mine are 7 years old, look great, about 2 1/2" wide 18" long

[markxengineerin]

"Lazy jacks are usually attached to the mast for them to stay relatively same length as the boom swings from side to side. If they were on spreaders, they'd tighten or loosen as the boom moves. Anyways, if you want to attach them on spreaders with an alternative method, perhaps a hose clip around the spreader." (YBW)

Definitely a good point- mine are loose enough to account for the change in length, must be good luck because I wasn't thinking about it at the time.

[s/v Jedi]

My lazy jacks are tied to the attachment points of the lower shrouds, right where the lower spreaders attach to the mast. I am not a fan of moving them out onto the spreaders as I’m pretty sure this loads the spreaders in a way they were not engineered for.

I just use some Dyneema lash-it to lash them to the same clevis pin as the lower shrouds.

The lazy jacks themselves are 6mm Dyneema with a simple small eye splice aloft and a small low friction ring spliced to it at the bottom.