sailboat railing: metal railing or metal rope?

[Aravind]

Hi

Currently the schooner I'm purchasing has the standard 2-lines 50cm high railing that you see on most production boats.

Some cruisers that I fancy a bit, like for instance Amels, often have 3-line metal railings,, which are higher, and which I think to be safer for the children.

Will it be in the way with the assymetric spinnaker/code0 ?

Your thoughts?
thanks
A

[grantmc]

Solid life lines are much better. Mine are simply a double row, but they're solid and deck welded, far safer and will never leak nor stretch and and way stronger.

But I doubt any of us keyboard sailors can be really be expected know about your boat OP nor the likelihood of sail wear and/or catching. But given you're looking at replacing then you obviously have the ability to custom design your the safety fence taking account of your sail wardrobe. It could easily be designed to drop down in height towards the pushpit

[Pauls]

A big second for Grant's endorsement of solid rails. They are far superior from a security standpoint. The 50 cm high lifelines you reference are basically there to ensure you hit the water head first. Lines that low are far below the center of gravity of a standing person, they will only trip, not stop them. Low lines are only effective for someone crouching or crawling.

My choice is for 30" solid rails. If that interferes with a sail then cut the foot of the sail higher.

[StuM]

Please don't call them railings, they are "lifelines" and should not be treated like actual solid railings. Unlike railings which can be used as handholds when moving around, they are designed to take a load in one direction only - outwards.

[JPA Cate]

Solid s/s rails, with backing plates under the "feet".

Ann

[Brioche]

My lifelines are secured to pulpit with pelican clips and I can add on a small length to drop them to deck to allow large headsail to sweep outboard at deck level if I want.

[Fore and Aft]

Aravind one thing with solid rails is they dent and that does look unsightly to me. Our kids have never fallen overboard with standard lifelines on any boat we have sailed.
Cheers

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by Aravind

Hi
Some cruisers that I fancy a bit, like for instance Amels, often have 3-line metal railings,, which are higher, and which I think to be safer for the children.

Will it be in the way with the assymetric spinnaker/code0 ?

Your thoughts?
thanks
A

I am not sure what you mean when you sail "3-line metal railings." I am pretty familiar with the Amel line of boats, and they have a single metal tube railing all around the deck, and a wire line halfway down. I MUCH prefer them to wire lifelines. The only real reason to use wire on a cruising boat is to save money.

If you have a metal boat, I can really appreciate the benefits of having them welded to the hull, but it can also be nice to remove them. Not sure which side I come down on there...

They can be a challenging build. An Amel 53 has the life rails in three pieces. Port side, starboard side, and bow pulpit. Stanchions and rails for each piece are one welded unit. All are threaded into metal backing plates laid into the hull.

If you are going to use solid railings, it is a good design idea to make sure that NOWHERE do they (or anything attached to them) extend out past the widest part of the hull. You do not want welded solid rails bearing agains a piling, dock or another boat. A surprisingly common flaw on many boat builds is to have stanchions stick out past the hull. Makes docking in some situations a real nightmare.

The older Amels (53 and eariler) have 28" high rails. The newer ones are higher, 30? or 32? and are a LOT more secure feeling.

If you are designing the boat, you haven't designed and cut the sails yet (I hope!) so however high the lifelines are you can make the sails work. If you are building a schooner, I'm betting a big deck-sweeping genny is not your priority sail...

[Bowdrie]

Thirty some odd years ago the Naval Academy did an engineering study on lifeline failures/causes.
Their findings should be apparent to anyone with a passing knowledge of the forces involved.
The crux was that the vast majority of "lifeline failure" was the lifelines going slack because of flexation of the bow/stern pulpits, and that leads to stanchion failure.
If the lifelines cannot go slack then the stanchions cannot bend outboard.
Bow/stern pulpits need to be triangulated in such a way as to resist any forces that tend to collapse them in an inboard direction.
Another finding: Looking down the boat lengthwise, do the stanchions lean outboard?
If so it takes less force to collapse them outboard, just a relatively small amout of flex in the pulpits leads to failure.
When stanchions are individually mounted so that they lean inboard a little, (~3>4 degrees,) and then the wires are tightened they are much more resistant to bending outboard..
I went with 30" stanchions that are 1.25" diameter, leaning inboard ~4 degrees.
I still want to beef-up the pulpits to take full advantage of those properties, and am considering going to tubing for the span between bow pulpit and first stanchion, and the section aside the cockpit.

[noelex 77]

Solid rails/lifelines are more secure, but they look unsightly if they become even slightly distorted. With bent stanchions a new one can just be slotted into place. It is worth ordering a couple of extra stanchions with a new boat build.

Other options that add to security are:

1. A bulwark or high toerail: Securing your foot so it cannot slip overboard is a significant help, arguably much more of an improvement than solid lifelines.
2. Higher lifelines : the standard height is too low.
3. Partial solid lifelines: making the lifelines solid just around the cockpit and stern provides much of the benefits with less risk of bending, lower weight and cost.

Finally, the first line of defence offshore should be the jack lines, hopefully the lifelines are never needed.

[Cheechako]

A solid top rail is nice. Subject to damage etc though. Boats 'bend' under way, as much as a few inches. A solid rail may not deal with that very well over time causing leaks at the base.

For safety, especially for kids and pets, I'd opt for more 'wires' or rails than what material it is. You can slip right though a standard 2 wire lifeline into the water. 3 or 4 lines would be nice.

There's a reason passenger rated boats require 6" max between rails or lines.

[pcmm]

I have solid top lifelines (tubing) with wire for the mid. Tubular railings for the top actually cost me LESS than using wire and my wife likes it better, makes her feel more secure when on the side and fore deck

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Boats 'bend' under way, as much as a few inches. A solid rail may not deal with that very well over time causing leaks at the base.

Do you have any evidence to support this assertion? Maybe on badly built boats with badly built rails--it's possible. But on boats built to an ocean going standard that aren't 200 feet long?

I can assure you a 1" stainless steel rail is a LOT more flexible than ANY boat I'd want to put to sea on. If I unbolt our stanchions from the boat, the rail easily flexes two feet or more in 40 feet, with one hand, without stressing the fittings remaining attached.

If a modestly sized boat flexed "a few inches" underway there would be NO WAY to actually keep a rig in tension. From totally slack to fully tensioned my backstay/forestay system absorbs about 50mm of turnbuckle thread. (that's about 1.5mm of stretch per meter of wire to get to 15% of breaking strength) If the bow and or stern deflected upward by two inches, the rig would go totally slack. If they deflected downward by that much, the tension in the stays would approach the breaking strength of the wire. Neither of these things happen. I call bogus on the premise.

Basic engineering logic aside, the proof is in use in the real world. Amel has been building boats like this for decades. Mine has been around the world TWICE, and there are ZERO leaks at the stanchion bases.

[BobFord]

I agree with Rails , safety rails . I had an advantage with an aluminium hull , to install aluminium tubular railings. Previous cats ,with only wire lines , seemed a waste of space. My rails are very solid and can be completely relied upon in the event of needing safety restraint . Also handy for lashing of dead sheets , halyards , etc. Upkeep is a polish every 6 months and an occasional film of baby oil.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

For safety, especially for kids and pets, I'd opt for more 'wires' or rails than what material it is. You can slip right though a standard 2 wire lifeline into the water. 3 or 4 lines would be nice.

If you're going offshore with kids and/or pets. I'd go with netting on the lifelines.