Sea frost engine driven compressor

[Singularity]

I am removing my refer as part of a refit. I have a functioning 12v Adler Barbour evap plate system. I will be installing at least one 110v chest freezer ($250 new) and will place the 12v evap plate inside the AC freezer. Provides redundancy at a low cost and the option to use AC or DC.

New purchase DC holding plate systems make no sense to me if the boat has a capable AC system on board and if there is space for an AC refer. As best I can tell the out of pocket price for a new DC freezer plate system is > $2500. An AC chest freezer with an evap plate system is lest expensive with inherent redundancy, no?

To John: the aquagen does combine a healthy DC alternator with a compressor for the freezer plates and/ or water maker. I'm not endorsing the product, only the concept (particularly when a new AC generator costs more than the Aquagen (itself something like $8500)).

https://www.aquamarineinc.net/aquagen.php

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Singularity

I am removing my refer as part of a refit. I have a functioning 12v Adler Barbour evap plate system. I will be installing at least one 110v chest freezer ($250 new) and will place the 12v evap plate inside the AC freezer. Provides redundancy at a low cost and the option to use AC or DC.

New purchase DC holding plate systems make no sense to me if the boat has a capable AC system on board and if there is space for an AC refer. As best I can tell the out of pocket price for a new DC freezer plate system is > $2500. An AC chest freezer with an evap plate system is lest expensive with inherent redundancy, no?

To John: the aquagen does combine a healthy DC alternator with a compressor for the freezer plates and/ or water maker. I'm not endorsing the product, only the concept (particularly when a new AC generator costs more than the Aquagen (itself something like $8500)).

https://www.aquamarineinc.net/aquagen.php

Does any of this pertain to the OP?

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Does any of this pertain to the OP?

The OP is in the middle of a refit asking advice about food refrigeration sub-systems. I'm a boat owner myself in the middle of a refit, addressing the same subsystem questions.

When your subsystem (12v refer) exists in a space eclipsed by low-cost electricity on board, such that the DC 12v refer system costs nearly the same as an ENTIRE LFP+inverter+AC chest system, it is at least logical to ask the question "just why am I sticking with 12v DC."

I don't earn a living selling or installing $3000 12v marine DC systems. In a world where the $300 AC refers exist, and serve daily on boats worldwide, it seems more than reasonable to bring up the AC option. One can spend an extra couple-few thousands dollars chasing the last couple joules escaping a DC to AC to DC power system, or just accept the fact that the batteries are full by 1:15PM every day instead of 1 pm (or something similar).

By AC option I mean running AC appliances off an inverter fed by an LFP bank.

I hope that this clarifies things.

[mvmojo]

Originally Posted by Singularity

The OP is in the middle of a refit asking advice about food refrigeration sub-systems. I'm a boat owner myself in the middle of a refit, addressing the same subsystem questions.

When your subsystem (12v refer) exists in a space eclipsed by low-cost electricity on board, such that the DC 12v refer system costs nearly the same as an ENTIRE LFP+inverter+AC chest system, it is at least logical to ask the question "just why am I sticking with 12v DC."

I don't earn a living selling or installing $3000 12v marine DC systems. In a world where the $300 AC refers exist, and serve daily on boats worldwide, it seems more than reasonable to bring up the AC option. One can spend an extra couple-few thousands dollars chasing the last couple joules escaping a DC to AC to DC power system, or just accept the fact that the batteries are full by 1:15PM every day instead of 1 pm (or something similar).

By AC option I mean running AC appliances off an inverter fed by an LFP bank.

I hope that this clarifies things.

I came to the same conclusion when we sold the sailboat and bought our trawler. For the past 18 years we've been running an AC under the counter 4.7 cu ft. refrigerator and separate 5 cu ft. AC chest freezer off a pure sine wave inverter fed by 10 golf cart 6v batteries. 1,000 watts of solar panels feed the batteries and produce up to 300 a/h per day. The fridge and the freezer each consume about 100 a/h per day of 12v power. As the saying goes, "Works fine, lasts a long time and needs little or no repair."

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Singularity

it is at least logical to ask the question "just why am I sticking with 12v DC"

Except the OP does not have a 12V refrigeration system.

It seems pretty clear sticking with his mechanical drive setup is the way to go.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Except the OP does not have a 12V refrigeration system.

It seems pretty clear sticking with his mechanical drive setup is the way to go.

An engine drive compressor system is a 12v system, but I'm sure you were referring to the more typical (continuous cycle) 12v systems with BD-type compressors, etc.

The OP stated that his engine drive system is leak-prone. This is usually the result of a faulty original installation which may be difficult &/or expensive to correct. So not at all clear it's the best way for him to go.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow, certainly making me rethink going battery-powered.

Especially since the same engine could generate the bank-charging energy and make high-gph water at the same time.

Ideally move to propulsion-only as well, and fit in the stock location where the Atomic 4 used to be.

Possible?

It’s all possible.
However You have to look at if its worth the complexity, time and expense.
Most often it’s less expensive and way less work and usually more reliable to simply buy proven systems and install.

Back before I got my boat, I was convinced the only logical thing to do was build a DC generator and have a Large LFP bank with inverters and run everything that way. Idea being of course that if I could charge at ten times my consumption rate, then my charge time is only 1/9 of total time, less if you have Solar.

Then reality of finding, buying and refitting my boat set in. If I were to have stuck with the original thought I’d still be building and rebuilding designing and redesigning watermakers, refrigeration, power systems and not be cruising.
It took me two years or nearly every weekend to just install things.
However if I were stupendously wealthy, I can see how it would be fun to supervise others building my ideas.

I call what your thinking “building a Nuclear powered wrist watch”
Yes, exotic, elegant nail installation tools can be fabricated, but sometimes it just makes more sense to smack it with a hammer and move to the next problem.

On edit, for what your thinking, a hybrid system is likely more logical. The electric part is just enough to maintain temp set point running full out, that is most efficient, then you have the engine driven part with its own evaporator to knock the temp down when you toss in the watermelon and a case of beer, several steaks to freeze etc.

But is it worth the expense and time? I decided it wasn’t. Once you get s Boat and actually start having to refit it, some of the neat ideas you have are left on the dock, or it’s a long time until you leave.

However some really just love to design and build, Ive seen many people build airplanes and once it’s built lose interest, the fun to them was the building, not the flying.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Except the OP does not have a 12V refrigeration system.

It seems pretty clear sticking with his mechanical drive setup is the way to go.

Please consider re-reading at least posts 1, 2, 3, 9.

As a single action , if it were me with my peculiarities, for sure I'd fix and keep the engine driven plate unit (particularly with the plates).

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But is it worth the expense and time? I decided it wasn’t. Once you get s Boat and actually start having to refit it, some of the neat ideas you have are left on the dock, or it’s a long time until you leave.

I want to create a comprehensive thread on this but some data I wanted to present is on the boat and I'm out if state.

The short of it is I complete agree with your logic and used to agree with your conclusions, until I bought a boat with a Northern Lights genny. Now as I'm adding LFP, and a watermaker, and adding healthy solar, I look at that fat expensive NL genny wanting to know what it can do for me.

How is my genny saving me time and money? If I didn't have any genny, and chose a small kubota genny-plate freezer-watermaker....how does buying and installing an AC genny plus water maker plus refrigeration system save time/money? I'm in the middle of this movie and I'm not understanding.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Exile

An engine drive compressor system is a 12v system

Wut?

No.

The compressor is driven directly by the engine mechanically, just like a stock vehicular aircon unit

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Singularity

Please consider re-reading at least posts 1, 2, 3, 9

I did, and now disagree.

But the post I was responding to as OT here was advocating AC-powered home appliances.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It’s all possible.
However You have to look at if its worth the complexity, time and expense.

Yes fair points. I do like tinkering and "thinking different".

> build a DC generator and have a Large LFP bank with inverters

I avoid AC as much as possible, my ideal boat would have none.

> building and rebuilding designing and redesigning watermakers, refrigeration, power systems and not be cruising.

> some of the neat ideas you have are left on the dock, or it’s a long time until you leave

It's a long time until I can leave anyway, unavoidable Life commitments. The boat will in the meantime be in my yard or on a trailer, and likely will be 60's-70's "from scratch" wrt most of these systems.

[Snyper]

My compressor is engine driven the past owner had it installed and then reinstalled the poor workmanship vibration and stress on the mounting ear caused a crack that aloud loss of pressure. I have used kits on freightliner trucks that come with nice mounting brackets not a homemade one with washers to take up the gaps I think that is what I am going to do for now I will look at 12v system in the future crappy work makes me so mad

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Singularity

I want to create a comprehensive thread on this but some data I wanted to present is on the boat and I'm out if state.



The short of it is I complete agree with your logic and used to agree with your conclusions, until I bought a boat with a Northern Lights genny. Now as I'm adding LFP, and a watermaker, and adding healthy solar, I look at that fat expensive NL genny wanting to know what it can do for me.



How is my genny saving me time and money? If I didn't have any genny, and chose a small kubota genny-plate freezer-watermaker....how does buying and installing an AC genny plus water maker plus refrigeration system save time/money? I'm in the middle of this movie and I'm not understanding.

Link to this small Kubota plate freezer Watermaker please.

[a64pilot]

Why would you want to avoid AC?
Start buying DC toasters, vacuum cleaners, blenders, counter top ice machines, clothes washing machines, blow drier and straightening iron, charge your battery powered drill, saws etc off of DC.

You’ll either decide to give up that stuff, cause there is no DC one available or pay way more for lower quality stuff just so it’s DC, or decide like most that AC isn’t so bad and the conversion loses likely make up for the stupid big cables you don’t have to run to power DC devices.
I had to run 6 Ga wire to power the silly toilet, yet my 120 VAC Watermaker is powered by 12 Ga and I may could have even gone to 14.