Settee dimensions reconsidered

[GILow]

Hi all,

I’m well into a bare-hull refit of the boat interior. Part of the refit involves building a new “L” shaped settee, not huge, probably enough room for four people with good table manners to share the dining table.

For much of the fitout I’ve been using Ferenc Mate’s excellent book “From a bare hull” which is based on boats just like mine so very relevant.

Ferenc gives dimensions for seating of 16 inches front to back for the lower cushion (from the face of the back cushion) and this seems to correlate with various online searches I’ve made.

The searches also suggested 3 to 5 degrees from vertical for the back rest.

I’ve mocked all this up, but it feels kinda wrong.

I really want another inch at least on the lower cushion, the back feels too upright, even at five degrees.

I wonder if these measurements are out of date for modern human sizes. I’m six foot tall, which is pretty average these days, and this all feels squashed and small.

Has anyone of a similar height got some dimensions they’d care to share and I’ll try mocking those up. Also, can anyone think of a downside to making the settees a bit deeper?

Matt

[nightowle]

I think you're making some reasonable assumptions here, and extending the lower cushion by at least an inch would be a good idea. Ours is 16" and it seems too narrow. I'd prefer more depth.

[GordMay]

Seat depths generally range from 15" to 18", with the seat slanting about 5 to 8 degrees front to back.
The seat back is often slanted between 5 deg for a dining chair, and 10 to 15 deg for a more casual chair.
See:
"Standard Dimensions for Furniture Design" ➥ http://www.cawspi.org/Furniture%20Design.pdf

[GordMay]

Note the differences in seating design for dining vs lounging. Unfortunately, a settee generally must perform both duties. You'll have to work out your own compromises.



See also:
Ergonomic Seating Guide
➥ https://media.haworth.com/asset/1333...e_Handbook.pdf

Must-have measurements for comfortable seating
➥ https://www.woodmagazine.com/must-ha...rtable-seating

[coopec43]

Matt


I agree with Gord May that it has to be a compromise between a dining chair and a casual chair.

I worked on seating measurements like you have (from a book) and built the furniture accordingly. When I went to the upholsterer he recommended cushion thicknesses and raking. My settee is quite different to the dining table seating. (I think I have probably made my table too large)

[Matt Johnson]

How do you normally rest/sit on the boat?

We never, ever sit in the upright position with our feet on the floor like in a dining room chair. Therefore, when we built out our interior, we made the lower salon in the 24"-26" range with no backrests besides the hull shape. It's much more comfortable when lounging (our sleeping on passage) and throw pillows make-up for the depth when guests visit. The pilothouse is 26" and the backrest are angled from 4" on the bottom to 2" on the top.... so real depth is 22".

I'm 5' 11" and 175lbs.

Noelex 77 did similar dimensions for the same reason on their Bestevaer 49'. Maybe he'll chime in with the exact dimensions they chose.

Matt

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

How do you normally rest/sit on the boat?

We never, ever sit in the upright position with our feet on the floor like in a dining room chair. Therefore, when we built out our interior, we made the lower salon in the 24"-26" range with no backrests besides the hull shape. It's much more comfortable when lounging (our sleeping on passage) and throw pillows make-up for the depth when guests visit. The pilothouse is 26" and the backrest are angled from 4" on the bottom to 2" on the top.... so real depth is 22".

I'm 5' 11" and 175lbs.

Noelex 77 did similar dimensions for the same reason on their Bestevaer 49'. Maybe he'll chime in with the exact dimensions they chose.

Matt

What about when in port or at anchor (which they tell me is 90% of the time) and you want to have a decent meal? Do you rest your plate on your lap!

[GILow]

Thanks all for the ideas so far.

I find it reassuring that people are playing with the accepted norms for their own interpretation of what makes a good seat. It reminds me not to get caught up with accepted norms and build what feels right to me.

Gordmay, you nailed it with the observation that dining and lounging are two different beasts. Thankfully these will be almost entirely for dining so I will lean in that direction for my dimensions. Thanks also for your excellent research skills, those linked documents were very helpful.

Matt

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by coopec43

What about when in port or at anchor (which they tell me is 90% of the time) and you want to have a decent meal? Do you rest your plate on your lap!

If we want to sit upright at our table, then we us those things in our back called muscles It's better for your posture anyway! Or if we have guests over, then we put throw pillows behind us as necessary. But most of the time we eat in our lower salon without a table. Down there we sit with our legs crossed and a placemat on the cushion in front of us and the hull ceiling as the backrest. We're very casual when it's just the two of us. We call it Chillaxin'

On our pervious factor designed Sabre we had similar settee seat depths at the table end (22") and ate there for years without using the backrest either.

Matt

[coopec43]

Matt

Keep in mind there are different density foams. For bedding you'll need 5 in (125mm) thick foam. high density.


https://www.padghamupholstery.com.au...pholstery-foam

[GILow]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

But most of the time we eat in our lower salon without a table. Down there we sit with our legs crossed and a placemat on the cushion in front of us and the hull ceiling as the backrest. We're very casual when it's just the two of us. We call it Chillaxin'
.

Matt

Very Zen! I like it.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Matt

Keep in mind there are different density foams. For bedding you'll need 5 in (125mm) thick foam. high density.


https://www.padghamupholstery.com.au...pholstery-foam

Actually, I reckon bedding is one area where personal taste is far more important than a set of rules.

For instance, I sleep on something more like a thin slab of rock than a mattress. Five inches of foam would give me the absolute sh-ts.

But for the settee I think the rules are more useful, and I’ve decided in 75 mm bases with 50 mm backs. Seemed a good general compromise.

[HankOnthewater]

Hi Gilow, good onya that you sort of start from scratch.
Indeed the settees on 80% of the boats are down right uncomfortable. In my previous boat I did what you did: reading books, check the net and came up with a comfy arrangement. I found that by trying dozens of boats and copied the one that I found comfy... and reasonable easy to make.

About foam.... I found that the best is to use 2 layers of foam, the bottom layer high density, and top layer medium density. I know those are just words and different manufacturers vary quite a bit, what is medium for one is low density for another one.
For me, seats of 2 layers of 4 cm worked well.
The most comfy backrests were (in my opinion) the ones who were sculpted, providing extra lumbar support, thicker foam at the base (ie 12 cm) and thinner at shoulder height. But that was too hard to copy for me. I went with 6 cm medium density foam and had plenty of cushions to get more comfy.

Another note on backrests. In my original layout backrests were 90 degrees to the seat, and a slanting backrest then made sleeping on the settee near impossible for a 6 ft person (as the length became approx 25 cm shorter, about 13 cm shorter on each opposing side). Therefore I made the back rest hinge at the top, and could lock it in place at a right angle, and at a seating angle. Obviously the foam of the settee needed to continue under the backrest.

On slanting of the seats. Yes, a slant to the rear of the seat makes it more comfy, and sleeping on such seat is also slightly better, less likely to roll off. But if you are making a table with seats either side and this kind of settee is used for sleeping (with the table dropped) then seats can not be sloping.

Lastly, build the seats to YOUR liking and size, particularly if are tall, as you are the person to use it most. And it easy to accommodate shorter persons with additional pillows/scatter cushions.

Very lastly, making everything angled..... one is introducing a lot more work, a compound mitresaw is a necessity. Hehehe, there is a reason why many/?most of the homebuilt boats have straight seats.

[Matt Johnson]

Not sure about Australia, but in the US, just about every foam supplier offered a cutting option to sculpt the foam to shape. We sent in the dimensions for the back (it was actually 4" bottom tapered to 1" at the top with a 16" height) and they cut the foam with a bandsaw to perfection. The service here added only $20 to the cost, and it makes the sewing project so much easier when the base is uniform.

The cost of the foam for the v-berth, and two salons worth of settee was around $700. We were height limited in the lower settee so only went with 4" total, but were able to do 5" in the upper. The base foam is of 3-4" of 2.8lb density with a ILD of 50 and a 1" topper of "super soft" with 1.8lb density and ILD of 12. Make sure it's a high resilient foam so it doesn't sag in a few years. It sounds like you want firmer, but these were the specs recommended to mimic higher end furniture.

Good luck,

Matt

[coopec43]

Hi Matt

The foam suppliers here in Australia offer a similar service of cutting and at a similar price. I had to give them a cardboard template of all the seats and they cut the foam accordingly. The same crowd did all the upholstery with nylon zippers which made it very easy. I do have some adhesive backed Velcro which I may use to secure the cushions in place if I find it necessary to do so. Cheers