Solar arch - thinking out of the box

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Skipper Steen

Try to check out https://www.balticsolararches.com/
Just ordred from the for my Oceanis 38.1

5000Euro for that standard arch...marine pharmacy

[CaptainRivet]

instead of pipes you can get squared V4A material, material is a bit more expensive but much easier to deal with.
EG take a 50mm square 2mm thick piece working as horizontal foot, cut out with an angle grinder a U with 40mm square that acts as vertical connection. Through bolt through together. then take 40x10 or 50x20 piece that act as connection bars, maybe also 2 or 4 solid material as main connector, depends on the distance so its not getting too heavy. again through bold to connect. Same with bracing.
Again that works soild but better to get a welder to the boat for 1/2 day or day just welding all bolted connection solid but that can be done later.

[Pete7]

Jan,

Here is a couple on a tight budget who built their arch from tube and fittings from scratch without welding. Might be worth watching. The only thing I will say is the fittings are held with a grub screw which isn't enough, so having a similar construction, I have drilled, tapped and fitted screws as well.

Pete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgYo...nel=BethanyIvy

[synonym]

Thanks all!
And thanks bccoast for your description of your experiences with unpolished 316 and 306.

I hear all the voices for solutions like Atlantic towers. Issue is, the boat is a Hanseat Kommodore center cockpit ketch from 1979. There is only about 20 in existence and Hanseat went bust in the 80s. Accordingly, no out of the box solution works...at least none I ever found.

After hearing and seeing the examples of the non-weld solutions, I don't find them as awful as everybody says. The solution I had in mind even works without the clamp style joints that mess the optics up a bit.
The ONE workshop that is currently engaging with me on reasonable terms would actually use the very same parts and weld them together. So now I am thinking, let's just take those unpolished 316 pieces. I build the thing and glue it together or otherwise fix it provisiorically and then the workshop can weld it.
I actually do have a welder (the stick type...I always confuse the abbreviations) that I got on the cheap once. But I never used it and I am doubtful if welding relatively thin walled SS tubes is the right first welding project. A few dots, ok. But circular seams? I am a handy person, but lack the required coordination for that, I think.

Seems like things are on hold until January, when the workshop has time. Then I will know how much they want to build the whole thing or just weld it once built by me, and I guess that's decision time then.

My most crucial learning now was that the unpolished 316 shouldn't be as much of a problem as everybody wanted me to believe so far (mind you they all would have earned money with it).

And just to give you some idea here. The quotes for the arch that I currently have are:
- 13,000€, fitted, 316L, polished
- 11,500€, fitted, 316L, polished
- 5,700€, self-fitting, 316L, polished
- 5,000€, self-fitting, 316, unclear if polished

I got a quote for 316L material only, 1000€, pickup.
If I use the 316 brushed ready parts, they would be about 600€ shipped.

I'll keep you posted when this progresses in January.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by synonym

Thanks all!
And thanks bccoast for your description of your experiences with unpolished 316 and 306.

...

My most crucial learning now was that the unpolished 316 shouldn't be as much of a problem as everybody wanted me to believe so far (mind you they all would have earned money with it).

I just read the entire thread, then came to this (currently the last post in the thread) where come to this conclusion about unpolished stainless (316).

And above you said people shared "description of your experiences with unpolished 316 and 306." - but I couldn't find that anywhere in any of the posts I read.

I did find two (3?) members who said that you could use 304 and just polish it a little now and then, and one who said you could get brushed stainless and polish it yourself (he pointed out, huge amount of work, which it would be) - but I can't find one post who said they had brushed stainless out in the open and it was fine over a period of time. Did I miss that post?

My belief is that the amount of labor required to turn brushed stainless tubing into highly polished tubing would amount to some number of weeks, like 3 or 4. For me, I could not do this work, maybe 10 years ago I could have! But, even if you are young and fit, it's a huge job.

Now, if you are talking about mounting brushed stainless and leaving it that way, I just don't see where anyone has said something to convince you that it's not as big of a problem as (some people) say it is.

I wouldn't want it on my boat, but partly that's because every other piece of metal is also polished stainless, it would look out of place, maybe not an issue on your boat. But in terms of its durability vs its rust-ability, I would not take the chance - my belief is that it will be a big problem and that rust will develop in the crevices of the brush marks and look like crap.

Sorry for the length of this missive.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by synonym

Thanks all!

I hear all the voices for solutions like Atlantic towers. Issue is, the boat is a Hanseat Kommodore center cockpit ketch from 1979. There is only about 20 in existence and Hanseat went bust in the 80s. Accordingly, no out of the box solution works...at least none I ever found.

What you are missing from the Atlantic towers solution is that they will ask you for some dimensions and figure out which version of their arch fits your boat. Its not really that hard, and I can (based on my discussions with Shelly) gaurranty you that one of their "out of the box" arches will fit your boat. There is a fiar amount of adjustability in there "tower in a box". Its pretty much down to, if you can't get it to fit, then you've done something seriously wrong. There is a lot of adjustability for with, height and even the angle of the transom. They have a model with straight inline legs and one where the front legs are splayed out wider than the rear.

[bccoast]

Unfortunately I had a really hard time finding 316 stainless tubing and needed to get the project done for a 8 week trip last summer. I could only get half the tubing 316 and the rest is 304. I did no polishing but after 6 months, the 304 had some surface rust starting to appear. A quick wipe with Filtz polishing creme and all came off, as well as all sorts of other rust bits on existing ss I applied it to.

He was probably referring to me but the "306" was a 304 typo I think.

I dont know if mine will be a permanent solution but will see how long it lasts. I havent decided if I want to get a proper tower with davit system or not yet. This Filtz polishing creme works magic on any little rust that appeared and says it should protect for 3 months. I will keep at it and regularly polish it and see.

I wouldn't say that the ss tubing was brushed, it just isnt as polished looking as say chrome but it isnt that noticeable of a difference to me. For the $500 in tubing that may have to get replaced one day, worth it to have had 10 weeks of solar this year and am sure will get many more out of it. I was quoted around the $6000 to have it built and welded without davits and a 9 month wait.

[CSY Man]

I made my own "arch" and solar panel frames from SS bimini top and railing pieces.
It came out rock solid and stood up to a direct hit from hurricane Wilma.

[Tmint]

I faced the same dilemma a few years ago. I ended up buying a used SS dodger frame the right size to span the stern rail of the boat, mounted it on top of the rail, added some extra support to the deck via 1" tubing with the proper fittings, and mounted the solar panels on top using mounting clips from Renogy. The frame came from the sailboat wrecking yard in Lynden WA. They had a huge supply for a fraction of the cost new.



This worked great, plus gave me a place to hold on while standing on the cockpit seats for a better view. I happened to have a strip of sunbrella with grommets along the edges that I laced to the frame under the panels, for some extra shade.

[Nefta]

Maybe you find this arch system interesting. You install it yourself without welding, there are several models with many configurations adaptable to all boats, it includes a tilting frame for the panels and it is shipped in a box, ready to assemble.
https://www.autocazantes.com/en-gb/energy-fix-eng/

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Nefta

Maybe you find this arch system interesting. You install it yourself without welding, there are several models with many configurations adaptable to all boats, it includes a tilting frame for the panels and it is shipped in a box, ready to assemble.
https://www.autocazantes.com/en-gb/energy-fix-eng/

Very interesting company. Their winch conversion kit seems pretty unique. As far as their davit/arch stuff, that also seems pretty unique. They have a lot of connectors, brackets, and clamps I've never seen from any other marine company. Most of their stock designs seem to have pretty flimsy geometry, and most of them seem to depend a lot on bracing against the existing stern railing. But, with all their connectors and their willingness to do custom designs, I think it would be pretty easy to work with them and come up with a robust stand-alone arch design. It's not going to be as streamlined as a welded arch, there will need to be a lot of triangulating bracing struts, but it's a lot more customizable than a lot of other options, and it seems like they work with polished 316 SS. It looks like they will help with the design using CAD, and since there's almost no bending, it's just cutting material and matching up with their fittings.

[s/v Jedi]

I have two suggestions:

- if you use West System G/flex epoxy (available as ready to use thickened) to glue the joints, you don’t need to weld them anymore.

- I can recommend aluminum SpeedRail from Hollaender: https://www.hollaender.com/products/#
I have used their 1.25” IPS which is 1.67” outside diameter and the pioe is galvanized. The fittings are available unfinished and galvanized. I recommend to use galvanized. I bought unfinished fittings and will have them galvanized.
You must use the same epoxy here as well. I didn’t and a hurricane won against the set screws.

[pbmaise]

Remember it is not the weight of panels you should be concerned with. It is how much the gym jock weighs who comes aboard and decides to use it as a chin up bar.

[donradcliffe]

I have noticed that many of the panel arches in this thread are in addition to an existing bimini, Take a look at the video and see how one boat uses the panels AS the bimini for sun and rain protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4vx3rq5Jlc&t=4s

The boat originally had a cloth bimini with flexible panels on the top, and you can see it in some of the earlier scenes. I was on the boat when the flexible panels melted and caught the bimini on fire.

The new bimini/dinghy arch was made in Florida and cost a significant fraction of the boat's initial price. I can see the boat hobby horses more with the dinghy on the back, but every boat is a compromise.

[Muaddib1116]

Pretty impressive bimini/arch, I think Spearit Animal has done something similar.

This probably isn't helpful for the OP, because it doesn't solve his dinghy davit requirement, but I've been really pleased with my relatively cheap proof of concept for hard panels on my pre-existing bimini frame. They've had zero issues up to the low 30's, no bad sounds or vibrations in the panels or the frame. I spent all season with some temporary tension lines holding it in place. Those will be replaced with two different sets of stainless support struts, which should make the whole thing even more robust. It's not super easy, but the panels can be removed and brought down below, if I'm really concerned about some incoming weather. I imagine the projections would have to be for gusting up above 45 for me to do that.