Steel Hull - Seeking Presurvey Advice

[Indipol]

Hi Everyone,

I am a novice looking to buy my 1st liveaboard and have come across a very "tidy" Roberts 53, it is very well fitted out. The only concern I have, and the only barrier to progressing through to the survey stage, is the level of rust I found in the hull section.
I am not looking for a strait, buy/don't buy here, what I'm hoping for is some advice on whether I should be sufficiently concerned (relative to some other boats that are out there). The degree of rust spotted here was common to most of the underfloor areas I had access to, not so much on the rib (although there is one concerning rib section pictured here), but mostly on the interior of the hull. The price of this boat is very competitive so I could potentially factor in money to get it fixed, but advice from anyone who has knowledge on these things would be much appreciated. Cheers

[conachair]

Lots info in here >
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Metal-boat-.../dp/B0070QRME4
https://books.google.pt/books/about/...QC&redir_esc=y

[Wotname]

Welcome aboard CF, Indipol.

There are a few threads about buying steel boats. The custom goole search function in the search pull down menu is a good way to find the other threads.

Meanwhile, remember

1. that steel boats rust from the inside out
2. Rust never sleeps
3. Unless you can remove and refit all of the interior fittings, you will never remove all the rust.
4. There will be more hidden rust than the visual rust.
5.Removing and recoating large sections of rust is a big big job.

I don't want to sound alarmist but a steel boat with this degree of visible rust is not for the faint hearted.

My first boat was steel and I love the toughness of steel but if it wasn't built properly, it can become a nightmare. Going from the few pictures you posted, this one is amateur built and while some can be well done, I don't think this is one of the good ones.

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap boat!

Here are a few threads worth reading
https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...2280j626368j10

[Davo1404]

Wotname has given you excellent advice. I built a steel yacht & totally agree with the able to access every part of the hull. Looking at the photos it looks like the rust has been painted over & is now rearing it's ugly head again. Realistically you need to be able to dismantle the interior to be able to fix it. What's it like in the inaccessible places?

[CF32907]

Hi all, CaptVR here.
Steel boats are fine, very tuff and can survive the heaviest of poundings if built properly. I'm going to give you a short list.
1. I personally would not take a vessel built with standard mild steel, most are. owner built, you can almost bet on it, cause it's the cheapest steel. So get certification of the steel grade that was used as well as the alloy welding rod.
2. I personally, being a retired marine surveyor, would not consider a steel boat that was constructed with any steel other than Corten steel, this is considered the best marine grade. With inspecting many steel boats, this steel does not flake and scale like most steels.
3. Ask to see any previous testing, (audio test, resonant test, or any other gauging tests that show underlying steel condition. Especially around the keel, rudder and chine areas.
4. Was the exterior sand blasted and coal tar epoxied or another appropriate epoxy. Was there documentation that this has been done. After sand blasting, you only have hours to apply coating. If it was blasted and sat for a week before coating, it probably will not hold up.
5. As per previous blogs, they are absolutely correct. What rust degradation you see, is a small amount to what you don't see. That is why I said to check the areas below the waterline. You will not see it on the outside. The degradation is on the interior and normally to inaccessible areas behind interior substructures.
6. Your survey will be very expensive compared to most. Your going to have to do ultrasound to the area I mentioned above. Your surveyor can help suggest locations, I normally chose 8 to 10 locations per side below the waterline. The tester is independent from the surveyor and bills accordingly. The boat cannot be checked in the slings, it will have to be blocked and out of water for a day to three. Depending on the protective coatings and bottom paint. To do the testing, areas are ground down to the steel test done and then all areas re-coat as per layup. Again all materials and yard labor is your responsibility. Most owners require all money be in addition to the normal earnest deposit that was given originally. They do have some testing equipment that does not require grinding, but I have found great spreads of accuracy with this equipment.
7. Be aware, steel boats are as bad as wood boats, there is always secondary work to do. On my Schooner, there were three adults. One hour a day for each of us was figured for maintenance and pre maintenance. On top of that I figure we had two to three full days a month. And being wood we had to haul every ten month in the Caribbean because of worms, at least you don't have that worry. But your maintenance and cost will be more.
Hope this gives you a little more insight. Wish you well.
Capt. Vince Rakstis, Retired marine surveyor St. Petersburg, Fl.

[slug]

Steel is not good for small boats

Thin plates and poor interior access

[Mike Banks]

Do you own any running shoes?

The only used boats for newbies are glass fibre, preferably vinylester or epoxy resin. They are the only ones where rust or decay happens slowly and is cheaply fixable--cheap being a relative term. Unless you intend sailing in reef waters or where rocks and ice and floating logs abound--I would go fibreglass--just do not let a glass vessel ever catch fire.

The resale value of steel vessels is not great. For unit length about half that of an equivalent age fibreglass hull. The big killer for steel is the heavy maintenance costs necessary to keep them in excellent condition. But--it is by far the strongest material available and is easily worked by people with some tools and welding experience.

If you are getting the boat for free you can possibly afford to fix the steel hull but it involves stripping and blasting to clean bare metal, a hot water wash to remove any salt, a hot air dry and an immediate application of rust resistant paints to a warm and completely dry hull. Such quality paints are EXPENSIVE. And that is just the INSIDE of the hull--where the damage is less obvious and harder to find and even harder to fix..

[nightowle]

CF hits the proverbial nail on the head in terms of an ultrasound being a must. The Bruce Roberts is a well-designed boat, but it really does depend on which yard made it. And, I don't mean someone's backyard! That would be a run away from scenario.

[captmikem]

I have sailed a lot of steel boats. From Tugs, freighters, ROROs to small sailboats and larger yachts. As someone previous said, a lot depends on the builder. Steel is not fiberglass, you can't let it set in a marina for five or ten years, and expect to do a hull polish and away you go. Steel is strong and easy to repair. But you have to be willing to rust bust, ospho, prime and paint any scratches or dings on a regular basis.

Everything is a give and take.. Unlike fiberglass boats, you don't have to worry about blisters or delaminating decks and house sides from a leaky screw hole.. A deck or portlight leak on a steel boat show up way sooner than it becomes a problem.

To know what you have you should have it ultrasounded by a good surveyor. it is not terribly expensive but a bit more than a guy with a phonic hammer or a moisture meter. The photos you show are nothing to worry about but you have to find the places that are not easily accessible as they will be potential problem areas.

Well built steel boats are strong, but they are a different mentality maintenance wise from fibeglass boats.

M

[Mithril Bham]

I see a lot of fear above although warranted. I have seen all sorts of non-steel boats with hidden problems that cost a small fortune to fix. I guess you could just write off all used boats and be justified. Maybe write off all boats. They are all a pain in the ass.
Maybe best to stay home and watch TV.

Get out your chisel, scraper and sandpaper and take that rust down to shiny metal to see what you are dealing with.
My biggest concern would be what you can't see.
Lots of great old steel boats floating around.

It is difficult to find a good steel boat surveyor. Doing it right takes a lot of time.

[captlloyd]

Some folks will determine and survey your prospective boat with just a few pictures. And keep in mind some don’t like steel boats to begin with. Look, steel boats can be great but will require more preventative hull maintenance than a fiberglass boat. If you are the sort who does not mind the extra work it take to own a steel boat get a surveyor and proceed accordingly. I built a 64 foot steel boat and I can not tell by those pictures if the rust I see there is a deal breaker. Good luck.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF,