Steering Cable Tension

[Tmacmi]

I have a L&S steering system on my Beneteau 331.

Does anybody know the tensioning specs on the cables? I've emailed L&S and haven't heard back.

Thank you

[neilpride]

Rule of thumb for me, is a little job for 2, one inside the quadrant and one in the rudder, hard wheel to port or stb, now you will see that one of the cables is very tight and the other not so tight, depending on how loose the cable is, you tighten it, it should be tight to the touch but not as tight as the one that is tighter.


To loose and can come out of the pulley, if it has a pulley.

[Na Mara]

All three of my Pan Pan emergencies at sea were on cable steering boats (not mine, 3 different boats) where the cables jumped the pulleys and jammed between pulley and it’s casing. This always happens in heavy conditions when the steering is being worked hard. Loss of steering in those conditions is not funny. Once, it very nearly resulted in the loss of the boat

Neglect steering cable tension at your peril!!

You couldn't pay me to have a boat with cable steering.

[donradcliffe]

In many boats, the rudder post and quadrant are not perfectly lined up, so the cables are not as taught at full left rudder as they are at full right rudder. It is hard to set a standard.

On a Transpac boat I delivered down to the race start this year, I crawled back and removed the autopilot just before the race. My post delivery report included "Tighten the rudder cables before the start!"

[GordMay]

Lecomble & Schmitt Instruction Manuals
➥ https://www.ls-france.com/en/instruc...nd-catalogues/

But, I didn’t notice any cable [wire rope] steering systems.

[SailingHarmonie]

The standard way of adjusting a cable steering run is to center the rudder, and be sure the chain drive is centered on the gear on the wheel shaft. Then tension the cable until you can deflect the cable 1 inch per foot of run with firm finger pressure. Make adjustments on each side, to be sure you keep the chain centered while the rudder is also centered.

These systems are not magic, they are all pretty standard, and the design and maintenance procedures are well documented in any number of books on sailboat maintenance.

Cable systems have many advantages. They give great feedback to the helmsman, and are very reliable if well maintained. But they do take maintenance, and inspection. I'd happily have an offshore boat with a cable steering system, but not one where I could not inspect ALL of the system easily. When on passage, a daily check of the steering gear (of ANY kind) should be SOP. Not being able to inspect all of the system is a problem...

[wholybee]

My check is that they are tight enough to take up any play in the system, but no tighter. There will be a bit of slack in the lines at that point.

I also switched to dyneema. My steering system was all new before leaving for my circumnavigation. 2 years and 20,000 miles later, a week after an inspection and everything still looked new, the cable snapped in a squall 600 miles offshore. I hove to until morning, and when conditions were more settled I rerigged with dyneema. 10,000 miles later I am not going back to stainless steel.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by wholybee

My check is that they are tight enough to take up any play in the system, but no tighter. There will be a bit of slack in the lines at that point.

I also switched to dyneema. My steering system was all new before leaving for my circumnavigation. 2 years and 20,000 miles later, a week after an inspection and everything still looked new, the cable snapped in a squall 600 miles offshore. I hove to until morning, and when conditions were more settled I rerigged with dyneema. 10,000 miles later I am not going back to stainless steel.

If your cable snapped after 20K miles something was seriously wrong. If you were at sea for a week and never looked at it, you kind of got what you deserved. Odds are it jumped a sheave because it was too loose and chafed away. There should NOT be "slack" in the cables. EVER.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

If your cable snapped after 20K miles something was seriously wrong. If you were at sea for a week and never looked at it, you kind of got what you deserved. Odds are it jumped a sheave because it was too loose and chafed away. There should NOT be "slack" in the cables. EVER.

I don't think so. The cable goes around a sheeve, and being bent back and forth millions of times over 20,000 miles. Metal will fatigue, and even if it looks ok will break after it bends too many times. Note that I also have 4" sheeves, not recommended for offshore(because of this very reason), but that is what my boat has and there isn't room for larger.

Even in your own post, you mention 1 inch of deflection. That is about what I have when I tension to take play out of the system. I might have a tad more. Just a tiny bit of slack on the lazy cable, but not enough for there to be any play in the wheel. Too tight puts excessive wear and friction on the system. Key to a monitor windvane working downwind in light air is to remove all that friction you can.

Before the trip, I removed the cable and inspected everything, that the idler pulleys were free of damage, the cable was good, etc. I had done this several times during that 20,000 miles. There is no chance it jumped a sheeve.

I inspect my steering before any major passage. That is more than most sailors do. Who checks it every 5 days during the passage? I couldn't even access the parts that likely have trouble without heaving to. I've never heard of a sailor doing that.

I have over 10,000 miles on dyneema now. Inspections show that it is still as installed, no chafe or wear. It's plenty strong, and doesn't suffer metal fatigue. It also has far less friction. My steering is silky smooth now. Turing the wheel at the dock, it feels like there is nothing attached to it, just the wheel and shaft with no chain or anything. If it does fail, it is more easily repaired offshore-and a whole lot cheaper.

[wholybee]

As for getting what I deserved. Your right. My boat is very well prepared and maintained. In 30,000 miles I had very few problems. Regular inspections almost always caught issues before they failed during a passage. In one port when people were walking docks looking for a ride, another sailor I had made several passages with told a prospective crew "you should ask Warren, his boat never breaks."

And when I did have a problem, it was never stressful, and I always had what I needed to take care of it. Even when I completely lost my steering 600 miles offshore. That would have been a real emergency for many sailors. I also carry a separate emergency rudder, should that have been needed.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by wholybee

My check is that they are tight enough to take up any play in the system, but no tighter. There will be a bit of slack in the lines at that point.



I also switched to dyneema. My steering system was all new before leaving for my circumnavigation. 2 years and 20,000 miles later, a week after an inspection and everything still looked new, the cable snapped in a squall 600 miles offshore. I hove to until morning, and when conditions were more settled I rerigged with dyneema. 10,000 miles later I am not going back to stainless steel.

Which brand of steering? Did you have a cable and chain as do Edson? Just curious how you attached the dyneema to the chain.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Which brand of steering? Did you have a cable and chain as do Edson? Just curious how you attached the dyneema to the chain.

Edson. Dyneema is easy to splice.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Edson. Dyneema is easy to splice.

Thanks[emoji106]

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Edson. Dyneema is easy to splice.

wholybee, that is a very neat solution, I am thinking of replacing my cable with dyneema too, I have a few questions if you don't mind-


what is the last link that is connecting the thimble to chain, did you get it form Edson?

why did you whip over the thimble?

what size dyneema did you use?

how did you connect it to the quadrant?

did you have to tighten it after some time to account for stretch?


much appreciated, thank you

[Nekton73]

Wholybee, I am also intrigued by your switch to dyneema and second the questions from Knotical, particularly regarding the final link that the thimble is attached to. My Edson setup has nothing like that.
A few more questions:

Did you ever determine why your wire rope broke?

Where did it break?

Do you recall what the broken ends looked like; frayed, splayed, crushed, etc.?

If it was recently inspected and in good condition with no evident wear or corrosion, and it didn't jump a sheave or get kinked or trapped somehow, then the breaking strength must have been exceeded... but given that amount of force I would expect other parts of the system to show damage, specifically the sheave mounts or the plate on the underside of the pedestal as they are aluminum and (I would think) likely the weakest link. I've seen these items cracked on another Edson setup which is why I mention it.

After 10k miles on the dyneema are you seeing any wear or abraison?
You mention far less friction but the wire rope/dyneema running over the sheaves, or riding on the quadrant, is the only place where I can think of that there would be a change in the over all system friciton. All other parts of they system remained the same yes?

Did you smooth or polish the groove in the sheaves or just leave them as is? Same question for the groove in the quadrant.


Thanks for your time to reply. As the owner of a wire rope rigged Edson system that I duly maintain and inspect regularly the thought of a cable failure (that I think is in perfectly good condition) is discomforting.