Stove Pipe Insulation

[ArmyDaveNY]

I'm installing a coal and solid fuel stove in one of my boats and was interested in knowing what others have done to insulate the through fitting. I found a very thorough blog (Harris & Watson Narrowboat Build: Search results for stove) from Great Britain and he used Aluminum Oxide Ceramic Wool although he stated is difficult to find and he was given some by the person he bought the stove from. What are you using? What have you done that worked and didn't work? Any thoughts or suggestions will be greatly appreciated (The suggestion to leave town has already been made!)

The stove I purchased is a Tiny Tot. It's been in production since the 1930s and has a good reputation based upon what I have seen. Their website is not great but their customer service is outstanding. The couple who own the company liked the stove and when the original owner retired they wanted to see production continue so they bought the company. They are located in Mesick, Michigan (Northwest part of the lower peninsula) and their website is Fatsco Stoves. The stove is only 11 inches tall and six inches in diameter. A load of coal will burn six to eight hours which is perfect for me. I've used the Dickinson Newport stove and while I like it, it burns for a much shorter period. This only cost me $274 total and the shipping was $45 of that. They also have a cooking top with sea rail that is something like an extra $150 or so. I'll get that once it is installed.

I am installing it on the "free" boat, which will likely cost me more than the other two combined. I am far less concerned about experimenting on this one though I was still not surprisingly having second thoughts about cutting the coach roof.

I searched this site a number of times but didn't find anything with details about insulating the annulus and through fitting. In early November I am going upstate (Not surprisingly, there are not a lot of stove stores in Manhattan) and will stop in a stove store near where I am staying but was hoping to get a head start on this.

The photos will be in a reply immediately below this post.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Here are the photos of the project so far:

Tiny Tot Stove. It still has some of the packing paper on it and doesn't have the access hatch yet installed on the top. It is cast iron and stainless steel. In case you are wondering, some of the magazines you are seeing include, but are definitely not limited to, Cruising Outpost, Good Old Boat, Sailing, Sail, etc.

Because I didn't have access to a five inch hole saw, I marked the position, then drilled a series of pilot holes. Once these were in, I used a jig saw to rough cut the hole.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Once the hole was rough cut, I made it round and did a test fit of the through fitting. If you look at the last photo, you'll notice the annulus around the through fitting. This is the part I was thinking of using the Aluminum Oxide Ceramic Wool, or something similar, to insulate it.

The next step is to make a ring that levels the through fitting. When that is done I will photo the installation of the ring and through fitting.

[ArmyDaveNY]

I should also mention that the Aluminum Oxide Ceramic Wool has something like a 2000 degree F melting point.

I was not surprised when I confirmed that the core material was soaked. It is a 1973 boat after all. I hollowed out two inches from the hole and will probably hollow it out a little more, then fill it with epoxy. Eventually I will do something with the rest of the boat's coach roof but that is a different project. Here is a photo of the hollowed out area and one of a section of the roof.

When I bought my first boat I thought I would be bored doing things like sailing, entertaining friends, etc. Now I have exciting things to do like wiring, and coring decks, and maintenance!

[seahag]

Very cool Dave. Good pictures!

[UNCIVILIZED]

Looks like a fun & useful addition/project. As to the insulation question, I would be inclined to query the makers of other stoves as to what they use/suggest. And then order it from them once I'd decided which to use.

As to the soggy, soft core. It's fairly easy to remove a good bit of it from between the skins, laterally, when you have a hole of that size in the deck already. Simply dig it out from between them, sideways. And then replace it in the same manner.

If you're inclined, try taking a piece of 1x19 wire, & splaying out the tip a bit, prior to putting the other end into the chuck of a drill. As if the core is soft you can sometimes get quite a bit of it to come out fairly easily, if in a messy fashion. And a Shop Vac helps during this process too.

[thinwater]

^^ That is an interesting tip. Thanks!

[wooden head]

I don't know boat standards for residential gas venting it should be a double wall pipe through the penitration. Your pics don't look like they are double wall.
I would contact the manufacturer rep about the install. They should know what is needed for a safe install.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by wooden head

I don't know boat standards for residential gas venting it should be a double wall pipe through the penitration. Your pics don't look like they are double wall.
I would contact the manufacturer rep about the install. They should know what is needed for a safe install.

You are correct about it being a single wall. I too was surprised about that. It was made by Dickinson, who also make the Newport stove. I have spoken in person to several who have used this and had no issues.

Interestingly, some prefer the single pipe since they say it provides almost as much heat as the stove itself. All recommended that I provide some sort of reflective shield behind the pipe in addition to behind the stove.

I am setting this up so that I can replace the through fitting if necessary. Because of the single pipe issue I am very interested in the insulation for the annulus and the through fitting. Thanks very much for your thoughts.

[robwilk37]

what youre looking for is a deck iron, worked a treat for centuries. lots of good links in this thread:

Wood/ Heating Stove Pipe Thru-Deck Fitting

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

As to the soggy, soft core. It's fairly easy to remove a good bit of it from between the skins, laterally, when you have a hole of that size in the deck already. Simply dig it out from between them, sideways. And then replace it in the same manner.

If you're inclined, try taking a piece of 1x19 wire, & splaying out the tip a bit, prior to putting the other end into the chuck of a drill. As if the core is soft you can sometimes get quite a bit of it to come out fairly easily, if in a messy fashion. And a Shop Vac helps during this process too.

Thanks for the tip. I was using a screwdriver which worked fairly well for the first few inches. I will try the wire. I lined the area under the hole with plastic which did a pretty good job of catching the dust and debris. A small 12V auto vacuum did a pretty good job with the debris which escaped.

I will try to clear a good foot or so back from the edges of the hole. I'll then fill it with West Systems 105/205 and 406 filler. Once this project is done I'll figure out what to do with the rest of the soft spots. I may go the route of a traditional coring. On the other hand, I may just drill every couple of inches, use acetone, air it out, and then fill it with penetrating epoxy. The nice thing about option two is that it can be done a little bit at a time. While it is airing out I can do other exciting things like wiring and engine work!

Thanks again for the suggestion of the 1x19 wire.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by robwilk37

what youre looking for is a deck iron, worked a treat for centuries. lots of good links in this thread:

Wood/ Heating Stove Pipe Thru-Deck Fitting

Thanks for this link. It is pretty interesting but I wonder how one keeps the water in the deck iron while underway? The good news is that once I get the Dickinson through deck fitting in, I can finish the installation of the stove. Once this is done, it will be a relatively easy thing to change the through fitting.

If I can find the Aluminum Oxide Ceramic Wool I may not need to change the through fitting. I suspect there will be some trial and error to this. Hopefully there will be more trial and less error!

Thanks again.

[DeepFrz]

Have you seen this from Dickinson marine? Page 9 covers stove pipe installation.

http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/Manua...l%202010-1.pdf

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Thanks for this link. It is pretty interesting but I wonder how one keeps the water in the deck iron while underway? The good news is that once I get the Dickinson through deck fitting in, I can finish the installation of the stove. Once this is done, it will be a relatively easy thing to change the through fitting.

If I can find the Aluminum Oxide Ceramic Wool I may not need to change the through fitting. I suspect there will be some trial and error to this. Hopefully there will be more trial and less error!

Thanks again.

If you read the fine print, it is intended to hold water, to aid in cooling.

The heat is not as scary, in a way, as a spark getting out of the inner pipe. This is one of the reasons for specifying a double pipe, not just insulation. How do you know if the flue has failed?

[seahag]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Thanks for the tip. I was using a screwdriver which worked fairly well for the first few inches. I will try the wire. I lined the area under the hole with plastic which did a pretty good job of catching the dust and debris. A small 12V auto vacuum did a pretty good job with the debris which escaped.

I will try to clear a good foot or so back from the edges of the hole. I'll then fill it with West Systems 105/205 and 406 filler. Once this project is done I'll figure out what to do with the rest of the soft spots. I may go the route of a traditional coring. On the other hand, I may just drill every couple of inches, use acetone, air it out, and then fill it with penetrating epoxy. The nice thing about option two is that it can be done a little bit at a time. While it is airing out I can do other exciting things like wiring and engine work!

Thanks again for the suggestion of the 1x19 wire.

Are you saying you plan to fill the entire "excavated" area around the hole, which will end up being 2 1/2 feet in diameter with West System Epoxy? Wow-if that is the case I think of three things right off:
1. Tremendous expense and waste
2.A big nasty "hard spot" in your deck
3. lousy insulation

Oh, and a big gooey mess, although my answer might be that yucky too. I would fill it with foam, and do your epoxy just in the small area around the hole itself, to help seal it off in the event of future leaks.

Maybe I missed something somewhere along the way but that just seemed like a lot of unnecessary epoxy expense.