Teak and Holly Tongue and Groove - Marine Wood Products

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

Does anyone have any tips for cutting marine plywood without damaging the veneer?

A previous post about scoring with a razor knife is a useful tactic.
I've found that for critical work I score, then cut slightly, (1/32>1/16,) outside the score, then clamp a straightedge on the work and use a router for the final cut.
Table saws are the "go to" machines, but without extended infeed and outfeed tables and a GOOD fence they are not all that great except for smallish work.
Most of the "tabletop" saws at the big box stores are miserable devices, hardly suitable for much more than producing cleat stock.
Whereas with the router method I described, clean/accurate results are obtained without manhandling awkward panels, and the preliminary saw cuts can be done with most anything, handsaw/jigsaw/skilsaw.
Additional tip: use the 3M "blue tape", and mark and scribe on it.

[zachduckworth]

Pardon the typos, reporting from the boat after a 12 hour workday…getting a bit tired over here.

I headed over to Carol Marie to do some further investigation. I’m going to try to post some videos of what I discovered. I found out that the sole on this boat is a 1 and 3/6 inch thick piece of plywood. The top 3 layers are rotten, and it separates pretty far back at that level. Below that it get complex. The layer below it is still solid, and in the front starboard corner on the cabin sole by the step up that separates it from the head that third layer is overlapped by fiberglass. There was also a screw that bound the third layer to the fourth layer. The top three rotten layers are 3/8th thick, or a standard thickness for contemporary teak/holly ply. This boat is from ‘84, for the record (three years younger than me..).

The sole is 89.5 inches from the head toe-knocker to the bottom of the steps. It’s 39.5 inches from settee to settee. That does not include some extra material that feeds into a gap beneath the settees and the bulkheads. There’s about an 1/8 inch or so overlap. At the water damaged section it pulls right out. In other places it is is still head in by varnish. It doesn’t appear to be epoxied in place.

The base layer below the first layer is a layer of completely solid dark green, painted marine ply that everything else sits on. It’s directly overtop of the bulkhead. I’m not sure how the sole interfaces with the bulkhead- it is bonded to fibreglass at one point. I’ll post links to youtube videos when I get home…

[zachduckworth]

Here are some pictures of the damage discussed in the last post. I pulled out the top three layers (veneer and two layers of ply) that were about 3/8 of an inch thick (a little less) to reach a hard layer of plywood with overlapped fiberglass. You can also see where the still hard layers of wood were attached to the top three layers with a screw. And you can see the full 1 3/16 " plywood contruct on top of the dark green substrate as well. I can slide a painters tool between the third layer and the hard fourth layer and slide it backwards for about two feet from the wall along the side of the bilge. For a sense of size, the doorway is about 17" wide.

Just based on what I'm seeing and labor costs just now, I'd estimate that hiring someone to fix this will cost $4000 minimum, or if I fix it myself about $1000 and several weekends. I'm not sure if penetrating epoxy is necessary at this point, since the top three layers are pretty much doomed, and the rest of the wood starting at the fourt layer down is still very much solid.

[Josephcrawl]

Has anyone tried putting down standard oak tongue and groove house flooring over plywood?

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Josephcrawl

Has anyone tried putting down standard oak tongue and groove house flooring over plywood?

Heresy.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Josephcrawl

Has anyone tried putting down standard oak tongue and groove house flooring over plywood?

You can buy tropical hardwood parquet though. This is where I sourced jatoba.

[Josephcrawl]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You can buy tropical hardwood parquet though. This is where I sourced jatoba.

I'm not feeling real good about tropical hardwoods these days. If I use white oak and glue and screw it seems like it would perform adequately in this environment. Plus I have a few hundred square feet left over from doing the floor in my house. Be nice to hear from someone who's tried it before I jump in.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You can buy tropical hardwood parquet though. This is where I sourced jatoba.

A most excellent wood for all sorts of things.

Originally Posted by Josephcrawl

I'm not feeling real good about tropical hardwoods these days.

Not to worry about Jatoba, this from the Wood Database:

"Sustainability: This wood species is not listed in the CITES Appendices, and is reported by the IUCN as being a species of least concern."
https://www.wood-database.com/jatoba/

[rls8r]

I'm not sure what you mean when you mention "substrate." It looks to me like your original cabin sole was 3/4" plywood with teak and holly veneer. You can get that from numerous places (see, for instance, https://publiclumber.com/products/3-...lly-cabin-sole). It sounds from some of your posts that that route is what you're taking.

I didn't replace my entire sole, but I had to repair some pieces and make a couple of new sole sections. I just went down to a local lumber yard and bought some unfinished teak and holly lumber - brought it home and planed it to 3/4" - used a joiner to finish the edges - used a router to make tongues and grooves - epoxied the pieces together - and then cut them to shape. Not exactly "easy peasie" - but not that difficult, either.

I notice that Bowdrie suggested leaving the holly (or whatever white wood you use) about 1/8" above the teak. I had heard of that approach and was thinking about doing something like that - but I had something more in the line of having the holly 1/16" above the teak in mind. In the end I just made the holly and teak the same elevation - and I haven't (yet) had any problems with slipping and sliding, or 'extra' wear on the teak.

One thing that I like about using solid lumber is that I never have to worry about it delaminating - or swelling.

[MicHughV]

When I was building my boat, I came across this wood: Angelique

Angélique - amazonexotichardwoods.com

You won't find it in Home Depot, but it is available in stores that sell exotics...teak, etc.
I was able to get it in a wide variety of shapes and sizes.

It is supposed to be more rot proof than teak.

I ended up using it quite bit, it's extremely strong. It comes from South America

[zachduckworth]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

When I was building my boat, I came across this wood: Angelique

Angélique - amazonexotichardwoods.com

You won't find it in Home Depot, but it is available in stores that sell exotics...teak, etc.
I was able to get it in a wide variety of shapes and sizes.

It is supposed to be more rot proof than teak.

I ended up using it quite bit, it's extremely strong. It comes from South America

The Angelique is pretty interesting. I’m definitely not married to the idea of a teak and holly deck.

Actually, I had the idea of maybe pulling up the entire piece of plywood, then setting in crossbeams over the plywood substrate, then nailing down planks. No epoxy. The goal would be to get a little bit of squeak out of the floor.

[MicHughV]

That Angelique is the toughest wood I've ever worked with. I used it to to make up the crossbeams and frame up the cabin sole's in my boat, as it would be out of sight till the end of time. Elsewhere I used it as trim. It has a really tight grain. I never had any problems with it cracking, bending, deforming, zilch...
I had a few occasions, where I got a lot of water inside the boat, but that Angelique just shrugged it of....it's good stuff !!
Might be hard to find, depending on where you are, but it is available.
I've read where getting teak is becoming more difficult, but I have nothing to back that up, just stuff I hear here and there.
Your idea sounds good, 'cept I would use screws in lieu of nails. Make sure they are s.s. or bronze, not hard to find either.

[s/v Jedi]

Check out the Tally Ho videos… lots of Angelique.

[Rumrace]

As far as South American woods go I couldn’t agree more. They have the worlds DNA and some woods that are astounding.
I sculpt and buy chunks of wood often to mount them on. At a wood show specifically for base chunks I stumbled across a South American specialist. I bought several heartwoods purple and pink as well as a Zebra wood. MOst have left on sculptures but this Padauc is like red oak and ebony Ruins saw blades Beautiful wood 8”x8” 1 3/4” 17.50$

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

I hope you can find a section that matches. How’d you get the veneer to cut clean like that? I’m trying to figure out how to get clean cut in the stuff.

I used an oscillating tool/saw. Difficult to make a straight cut though. I hope I can find some that matches as well.