Tensioning up standing rigging

[coopec43]

Six months ago I had Helen rigged for the first time. Since then I have noticed one of the stays(?) on the mizzen mast has lost some of it's tension. I immediately thought the chain-plate must have moved but that is not the case as two other stays attached to the same chain-plate are well tensioned.

It has been worrying me but out of the blue the other day my Son mentioned the riggers told him it may be necessary to nip up a stay or two if they lose tension.

That's all new to me so I will educate myself. I'll probably start by watching a couple of YouTube videos but is there anything I should pay particular attention to? What tension tester instrument do I need?


Any advice will be appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8bHACf9U3o

[Benz]

Unless it's a racing boat, micro-tuning the rig isn't really critical. If the mast stays in column while sailing hard, that's all you need. Snug them up till they feel all even, then go sailing and sight up along the mast to see if it's leaning to leeward.
If the mast stays in column, but the lee shrouds are flopping a lot (a little slack in the lee shrouds is usually acceptable, but not much), then tune again when you get back in (I wouldn't tune while underway).

[coopec43]

Thanks Ben

That is reassuring. I had visions of the mast flopping Port to Starboard in a choppy sea and eventually ripping out the chain-plates out of the hull.

[s/v Jedi]

I recommend this book, available on kindle as well as paper: https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-S.../dp/B07F3RXWSR

You do need to get the rigging tight but the way and order is important. You don’t need a gauge, you can measure stretch and test while sailing.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I recommend this book, available on kindle as well as paper: https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-S.../dp/B07F3RXWSR

You do need to get the rigging tight but the way and order is important. You don’t need a gauge, you can measure stretch and test while sailing.

Thanks for that.

That is one thing that worried me - the order of tensioning up. But at this stage I only have one that is a little slack so I'll just nip that up but not so much that it affect any other stay

[Orion Jim]

Just borrow or purchase a Loos tension gage and be done with it. There are two types of evidence, objective and subjective. The gage provides objective evidence that your standing rigging is tensioned evenly. You still have to tune your rig to ensure your masts(s) is in column but you will now be able to ensure it will stay that way. If, upon a periodic subsequent check, you find your standing rigging tension has decreased you can investigate and isolate the reason why. It’s not unusual to find a slight change in the first couple weeks, then after a slight adjustment things will settle in and remain consistent.
Subjective evidence is based on feelings and opinion, not facts. Everyone has different feelings based on their individual personal perspective so these vary widely.
Can you use a tape measure to get you in the ball park, sure, then use a calibrated tension gage to fine tune your rig and provide objective evidence that your standing rigging is tuned properly.
To use a mechanics analogy, the next time you torque the head bolts on your engine will you use a torque wrench for objective evidence that you are meeting the torque specs or will you just snug the bolts up subjectively by hand?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Thanks for that.

That is one thing that worried me - the order of tensioning up. But at this stage I only have one that is a little slack so I'll just nip that up but not so much that it affect any other stay

How slack is slack?

First it would be worth investigating if there is any reason why that particular stay went slack? Check all the connections for articulation of any split pins, cotter pins, toggles and forks.

If you don't find anything and don't want to do a full rig tune. I wouldn't have thought was really necessary on a mizzen.

Loosen the opposing stay before tightening the offending (loose) stay then check everything is in line. Then gradually tighten each of the 2 stays by hand until they are just under tension. Check alignment again then crank up the 2 stays alternating 1/2 or 1 turn on each side until the desired tension is achieved. Check alignment again and you should be ready to go. You don't need a gauge. If the wires are over a certain size very few if any gauges will work anyway.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Thanks for that.

That is one thing that worried me - the order of tensioning up. But at this stage I only have one that is a little slack so I'll just nip that up but not so much that it affect any other stay

If you go this route be sure that you look carefully and keep the mast straight.

Without any real numbers or data everybody is just guessing, so this is too...

Something odd is going on. Wire does not stretch significantly after it has been installed and tuned. Although you did not say so, I am guessing that this is one of the upper shrouds on your mizzen? It is impossible for one upper shroud to loose tension and the opposing one to still be as tight as it was before. They pull against each other. If one side gets longer, the mast bends and other side goes slack too.

If you need to take up more than a very few millimeters to restore the original tension SOMETHING has moved. If you can't find what is moving you will just have to hope that whatever that might be has stopped moving. I am not sure I like hope as a plan...

[coopec43]

As I said in my opening post:


"Six months ago I had Helen rigged for the first time. Since then I have noticed one of the stays(?) on the mizzen mast has lost some of it's tension. I immediately thought the chain-plate must have moved but that is not the case as two other stays attached to the same chain-plate are well tensioned."

Now that I know the riggers told my Son that some stay)s) may need nipping up I am fairly relaxed.

The yacht was rigged "on the hard" so I suppose the hull could have changed shape very slightly when launchedalthough I would have thoughtit would affect more than one stay.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by coopec43

As I said in my opening post:


"Six months ago I had Helen rigged for the first time. Since then I have noticed one of the stays(?) on the mizzen mast has lost some of it's tension. I immediately thought the chain-plate must have moved but that is not the case as two other stays attached to the same chain-plate are well tensioned."

Now that I know the riggers told my Son that some stay)s) may need nipping up I am fairly relaxed.

The yacht was rigged "on the hard" so I suppose the hull could have changed shape very slightly when launchedalthough I would have thoughtit would affect more than one stay.

Nipping up is not a technical term I would use, the whole idea of standing rigging is to keep the mast in column and stop it from falling over. Random Nipping Up is not a good solution.

You did mentioned that the rig was replaced while on the hard, this is generally a bad idea, chocking can have a major effect on the shape of the hull and alignment of chain plates. and should always be tuned afloat.

It sounds as though you should call the rigger back to tune it properly or read up and learn how to do it yourself. In my experience many rig failures occur immediately after a re-rig, it is more than just a wire replacement exercise, the devil is in the detail.

[DEAN2140]

If you do check the tension, be sure you don't have wind on the beam in your slip as that will affect your readings. A loos tension tool is a good way to go. I have one, model RT 10, that I no longer use. You can contact me if you are interested in purchasing it for a substantial discount. deanj105@comcast.net

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Nipping up is not a technical term I would use, the whole idea of standing rigging is to keep the mast in column and stop it from falling over. Random Nipping Up is not a good solution.

You did mentioned that the rig was replaced while on the hard, this is generally a bad idea, chocking can have a major effect on the shape of the hull and alignment of chain plates. and should always be tuned afloat.

It sounds as though you should call the rigger back to tune it properly or read up and learn how to do it yourself. In my experience many rig failures occur immediately after a re-rig, it is more than just a wire replacement exercise, the devil is in the detail.

NO! I did not mention the rig was replaced while on the hard! My first comment was (Please Read)

"Six months ago I had Helen rigged for the first time. Since then I have noticed one of the stays(?) on the mizzen mast has lost some of it's tension. I immediately thought the chain-plate must have moved but that is not the case as two other stays attached to the same chain-plate are well tensioned" .

Since launching her I have had a sail-maker (and very experienced blue water sailor) aboard her installing her deck hardware and he has no problem with the tension of the rigging.

I agree I must read up and ensure I know how to tension the rig myself.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

If you do check the tension, be sure you don't have wind on the beam in your slip as that will affect your readings. A loos tension tool is a good way to go. I have one, model RT 10, that I no longer use. You can contact me if you are interested in purchasing it for a substantial discount. deanj105@comcast.net

Thank you for your advice and your kind offer but as I intend selling Helen I will get my friend (who is an experience sailor) to lend a hand

I think the problem was a tang that was not properly aligned?? Maybe?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Thank you for your advice and your kind offer but as I intend selling Helen I will get my friend (who is an experience sailor) to lend a hand

I think the problem was a tang that was not properly aligned?? Maybe?

For some reason I had wrongly assumed it had be done on the hard.


Identifying a misaligned tang goes a long way to explaining the reason for the slack stay. You should still slacken off the opposing stay(s) and then tension evenly.

[grantmc]

Seeing as how this thread has obviously caught the attention of some members with reasonably decent knowledge of rig tuning. I'd appreciate thoughts on taking account of:
1. temperature, for example tuning a rig in the tropics vs tuning on a typical winters day in northern climes.
2. Hull material, ie do timber, steel or aluminium hulls change the tuning dynamics as against GRP. My understanding has been that GRP and timber hulls for example have a little give as the rig comes under tension that isn't the case with steel or aluminium?

Many thanks.