The Yard Guys

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Polux

Again you made me laugh! Thanks that is good for the health

I wonder what percentage of boats is grounded in rocks. On my 30 000nm I only had been once in a tight situation (entirely by my fault an I managed to go away without damages). On all those miles must of the time I anchored for the night. sure if one goes to sail to badly charted and remote places I am all in favor to have a steel or aluminium boat (even if many do that on mass production boats) but for the kind of crusising most of the sailors do? That makes no sense.

And in what regards those old heavy boats you would have to exchange that for a lousy sailing performance. I posted yesterday what i think is the last post on the ARC thread. The Mason 44 and the Nauticat 43, with a close performance arrived yesterday, 10 days after the 45ft Philocat. The last boat is still at about 2 days sailing, the Island Packet 380, going at 5K.

By the way, the owner Peter, posted on the thread a nice video where we can see that they are not a big racing crew. It seems like Peter, the wife an two friends (Franziska, Stefan, Sven & Peter) certainly all good sailors.. Here is the video:

Come to the Caribbean where to be in the rocks is the norm , i cant count with my fingers how many boats visit the boatyard last year and this one, bareboat charters, old boats new boats..

And again there is certain number of cruisers who enjoy to be at sea without worry to much if the passage last 5 or 10 days, i mean they dont give a **** if the philocrat is ahead by 5 days, and the other part of the cake are worry if the speed log drop from 10 knts, the ip 38 is doing 5 knts, guess what, they enjoy the trip or not? why you dont take a plane to St Lucia and ask by yourself... you enjoy the croosing? are you upset to spend 6 more days than the faster boats?¿ you make me laugh dude...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

... I see while I was gone Smack beat up the poor Moody's. Imagine this, back in the 70's Moody built one model, the 39 that they decided in their own wisdom could be built with a skeg design that was smaller than the one approved by Lloyds. ... R

By the way, that Moody 47 (1982/89) that had problems on the rudder and went to Cabo Verde for a repair are still on the middle of the Ocean, I hope they had find the means of doing a proper repair on the Islands, Not many resources there. I sincerely hope they will make it safely till Saint Martin.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride;1703479...

And again there is certain number of cruisers who enjoy to be at sea without worry to much if the passage last 5 or 10 days, i mean they dont give a **** if the philocrat is ahead by 5 days, and the other part of the cake are worry if the speed log drop from 10 knts, the ip 38 is doing 5 knts, guess what, they enjoy the trip or not? why you dont take a plane to St Lucia and ask by yourself... you enjoy the croosing? are you upset to spend 6 more days than the faster boats?¿ you make me laugh dude...

I guess you did not understood, it is not the passage lasting 5 or 10 days, it is, on the case of that IP380 to last more 12 or 13 days that would took to that 45ft cat and yes, if I was doing that passage (or any other smaller passage) I would be pissed if I would took the double of the time of another cruising boat not much bigger or just slightly less than half the time with a Mason 44, that has about the same size. You can be sure that I would be replacing my boat quickly for sailboat that could sail better. Never liked to be among the last in anything.

But I can understand that some would not mind to take the double of time on the passage, after all sailors and cruisers can enjoy different things, even if i don't understand why that makes you laugh.

[neilpride]

You dont get it, i give it up,...

I made my first croosing in a Abeking and Rasmussen 62 ft cutter, as a Skipper, take exactly 18 days to reach Azores from St Marteen , we enjoy the trip like small kids, sometimes we just make 5 knts and sometimes 7, in the way back from Gibraltar to Antigua , i have some serious guys as crew, and the tripp take 21 days from Gibraltar to Antigua, not bad for a 36 tons boat.

My wife and me deliveried 2 catamarans for a chárter company based in Martinique, the first a L380 made the trip from Las Palmas to Martinique in 21 freaking days, yes 21 days, no winds, calms, headwinds, etc... after all we enjoy the trip to , the second one a L440 take 17 days to reach Martinique. You obviously can make conclusión based in what? do you kno that maybe the guys in the ip dont want or risk to sail faster? maybe they are having fun and dont worry to much when they reach the destination..

I can ask you, do you sail in a Schedule? you are in a hurry to reach point B from point A? Cruising is you know when you leave but you dont know when you reach destination...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

You dont get it, i give it up,...

I made my first croosing in a Abeking and Rasmussen 62 ft cutter, as a Skipper, take exactly 18 days to reach Azores from St Marteen , we enjoy the trip like small kids, sometimes we just make 5 knts and sometimes 7, in the way back from Gibraltar to Antigua , i have some serious guys as crew, and the tripp take 21 days from Gibraltar to Antigua, not bad for a 36 tons boat.

My wife and me deliveried 2 catamarans for a chárter company based in Martinique, the first a L380 made the trip from Las Palmas to Martinique in 21 freaking days, yes 21 days, no winds, calms, headwinds, etc... after all we enjoy the trip to , the second one a L440 take 17 days to reach Martinique. You obviously can make conclusión based in what? do you kno that maybe the guys in the ip dont want or risk to sail faster? maybe they are having fun and dont worry to much when they reach the destination..

I can ask you, do you sail in a Schedule? you are in a hurry to reach point B from point A? Cruising is you know when you leave but you dont know when you reach destination...

It seems that it is you that don't get it. I understand perfectly that for some sailing a very slow boat and take a huge bigger amount of time it will be perfectly alright. It seems that it is you that don't understand that is not perfectly alright for all

I don't understand the examples you give. The ARC is a passage that is made with the boats sailing at the same time, not crossing the Atlantic in different directions or in different periods.

There are very fast cruising boats, fast cruising boats, average speed cruising boats, slow cruising boats and very slow cruising boats. Older boats from the same type are slower than new ones and really old, much slower. Some like to do it very fast, others as it seems to be your case, don't mind to do it very slowly.

I am alright with that, excepts in what concerns me, it pissed me not to catch any cruiser of the same size that is outsailing me, not to talking about outsailng me for 10 days, that would really made me exchange my boat, but that is just me, I accept that others don't care.

It is you that don't seem to accept that there are sailors that sail with the same spirit I have. That's why there is a market for very fast cruising boats.

[neilpride]

Do you see any post from me blaming a fast or slow boat? who is bringing all the time the same isue here or there? no, i get it , thats the diference , you dont. You are always putting speed as the primary concern for a proper cruising boat, speed , spped and more speed.

See...

And in what regards those old heavy boats you would have to exchange that for a lousy sailing performance. I posted yesterday what i think is the last post on the ARC thread. The Mason 44 and the Nauticat 43, with a close performance arrived yesterday, 10 days after the 45ft Philocat. The last boat is still at about 2 days sailing, the Island Packet 380, going at 5K.


I want to see you in the ARC some day bro, then you are going to realice what the hell its a ocean passage...

[neilpride]

With your logic, If you set sails from Plymouth to Ny in your hig perfomance Comet and you take 55 days to make the crossing i guess i have the right to post in a sailing fórum about how poor or slow is the Comet 41 s right?

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I cross an ocean and it takes me half a day to read some of this stuff, same basic program with limited value. The Google guys taking on the sailors/builders. I see while I was gone Smack beat up the poor Moody's. Imagine this, back in the 70's Moody built one model, the 39 that they decided in their own wisdom could be built with a skeg design that was smaller than the one approved by Lloyds. One of these vessels had the skeg fracture somewhere in the Indian ocean. The owner had deep pockets and sued Moody and Lloyds of London . Moody lost and there after built very strong skegs on their boats. This was one boat that had an issue and it damn near cost them their reputation built over a hundred years. Those were different days, imagine loosing a rudder on a boat today and paying such a deep price that the company might not survive. Hunter would have been gone years ago as well as most production builders. Who could successfully sue a builder today for loosing a rudder? And for the conspiracy theory fools, this story was news from the get go and the original information is there for all to see, getting paid off to shut your mouth!! What a joke. And then Smack talks about a Moody breaking a skeg while being towed off a grounding but when a Jenneau is shown with the floors like pasta and the keel off he suggests its not fair to knock a boat after its been damaged as any boat can be damaged. This is the same BS with the same players.. entertaining for sure as long as you realize you are debating with folks that for all practicle purposes are very junior sailors but are consummate experts when Google is their friend. Nice to be back! R

Hey - when a person is right, the person is right. I can't help it that I'm right. I mean, I certainly don't want to try to pretend to be wrong. That would just be weird.

As for the Jeanneau/Moody thing - the point is that the BWC goes on and on about the "strength and safety" of "blue water boats" compared to production boats. That's their oft-spouted point - not mine. So when a Moody sinks in the ICW when, according to the owner, he was backing off the shoal (not being towed off) - that's kind of an issue. It's an issue that shows that, just maybe, the BWC assurances aren't at all what they appear.

Again, them's facts..."consummate expert" (whatever that means) or not.

Oh, and welcome back. Where did you go and what were you sailing?

[Jim Cate]

Back to the Morgan on the rocks vs a newer production boat on the rocks...

Didn't we just have a newish Benie on the rocks at Pancake Creek (Qld, Oz) a few days ago? IIRC, from the posted reports it broke up pretty quickly.

I don't know if this has any meaning at all, but if it had been an older boat I suspect that Smack would have been gloating about it!!

Bouncing on rocks isn't good for any boats, timber, f/g, alloy or steel... I've seen examples of each of these in dire condition after encountering rocks. Some of those viewings have been while diving.

Jim

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Polux

By the way, that Moody 47 (1982/89) that had problems on the rudder and went to Cabo Verde for a repair are still on the middle of the Ocean, I hope they had find the means of doing a proper repair on the Islands, Not many resources there. I sincerely hope they will make it safely till Saint Martin.

Maybe the Hunter or a Beneteau could turn around and tow them?

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

By the way, that Moody 47 (1982/89) that had problems on the rudder and went to Cabo Verde for a repair are still on the middle of the Ocean, I hope they had find the means of doing a proper repair on the Islands, Not many resources there. I sincerely hope they will make it safely till Saint Martin.

I guess it all depends on what the rudder problems are! Is it the kind that 16 Hunters had as in losing them altogether or is more probably the seal on the rudder shaft. Personally I think it is the seal because as soon as the larger following seas abated the water entering the boat also abated. This is not uncommon on a Moody that has not been properly maintained as these seals do wear out over time and it is a pain in the butt to drop the rudder to replace them. There are short term temporary fixes that will work but the amount of water they are taking in is not really all that much. Once they are in port they can crawl into the rear locker and check the seal area of the shaft and taste the water in that part of the boat as there will always be some left. You will also see salt crystals in the area if it has been leaking. If that is all that is wrong I would sail it slow so the rear end is not squatting which adds more water pressure and increases the flow. They will need proper facilities and a haul out to fix it....if it is the seals. I have not heard of an actual rudder failure on one of these boats so my $$ is on the shaft seal. Hope he is able to get it all together and finish the passage, water entering your boat at sea is not cool.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Back to the Morgan on the rocks vs a newer production boat on the rocks...

Didn't we just have a newish Benie on the rocks at Pancake Creek (Qld, Oz) a few days ago? IIRC, from the posted reports it broke up pretty quickly.

I don't know if this has any meaning at all, but if it had been an older boat I suspect that Smack would have been gloating about it!!

Bouncing on rocks isn't good for any boats, timber, f/g, alloy or steel... I've seen examples of each of these in dire condition after encountering rocks. Some of those viewings have been while diving.

Jim

Sorry - "on the rocks" can mean many things, including how I like my scotch. So you really need to be a bit more specific for your comparisons.



A Beneteau 40-something (French Kiss) ran straight up on the Galveston rock jetty returning from the Harvest Moon Regatta. 30 knots and steep, short 6' seas and it pounded for several hours while the CG pulled the crew off. It eventually pounded across the jetty then sunk in the channel.

If what you're trying to tell me is that a Morgan would have been fine in that situation - I will have to assume you're joking, because the alternatives aren't good.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Hey - when a person is right, the person is right. I can't help it that I'm right. I mean, I certainly don't want to try to pretend to be wrong. That would just be weird.

As for the Jeanneau/Moody thing - the point is that the BWC goes on and on about the "strength and safety" of "blue water boats" compared to production boats. That's their oft-spouted point - not mine. So when a Moody sinks in the ICW when, according to the owner, he was backing off the shoal (not being towed off) - that's kind of an issue. It's an issue that shows that, just maybe, the BWC assurances aren't at all what they appear.

Again, them's facts..."consummate expert" (whatever that means) or not.

Oh, and welcome back. Where did you go and what were you sailing?

I went to places you have never been Smack and will never go, in a boat you will never own. I'm going to be nice to you because someone has told me that you have had more than your share of bad luck and that behind all the I know something persona hides a nice person.

[downunder]

Quote by Polux
"I am alright with that, excepts in what concerns me, it pissed me not to catch any cruiser of the same size that is outsailing me, not to talking about outsailng me for 10 days, that would really made me exchange my boat, but that is just me, I accept that others don't care.

It is you that don't seem to accept that there are sailors that sail with the same spirit I have. That's why there is a market for very fast cruising boats."
__________________

That is not a good reason to select a vessel and says it all about your choices.

Sure the Philocat is light and fast but offers no weather or sunprotection and a hot sundrenched saloon when it arrives in the carribean.

A fast racer but not a great cruising cat. Your choice.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

..Personally I think it is the seal because as soon as the larger following seas abated the water entering the boat also abated. This is not uncommon on a Moody that has not been properly maintained as these seals do wear out over time and it is a pain in the butt to drop the rudder to replace them. ....

If you know the problem maybe you can explain it to me because I don't understand. On all the boats I know the end of the tube from where the rudder passes is above water level and then there is some kind of waterproff flexible material (normally a heavy rubber tube that makes the connection from that tube to the other one on the upper part of the system. They are tightened with strong braces and no way any significant water will come in, seals working or not. Is not this the system you have on the Moody?