to bung or not to bung

[ksmith]

That is the question.

My teak toe rail was screwed from the under side of the lip. After 30+ years the screw holes are pretty wallowed out.

I am thinking thru bolt or maybe barrel bolt. However the toe rail is only 1/2 3/8 thick. So if I counter sink and use bungs there would not be much bit? Also there are a lot of them probably ever 4". I was thinking also fill the wallowed out holes and just thru bolt say ever foot or so.

All thoughts and personal experiences welcome.

[Steve Rust]

That is alot of holes in the deck. The toe rails on my trimaran were held on by 3M 5200. When it came time to paint I had a hard time removing them. If you are not worried about getting them off again this might be an option. Maybe a few fasteners here and there to hold things in place.

[Roy M]

This is a simple, super strong, and attractively cheap way to do it: Drill through your handrail at the spot where you would normally mount a screw or bolt. The size of the drill is the same size as the largest wood plugs you can easily fit, 3/8" is ideal for me. After drilling the handrails on the workbench, place them in the desired spot on the boat and use them as drilling guides through the cabintop or other location. Drill the same size hole into a thick part of the cabintop, say, where you have a butt block or reinforcing block. If the bottom hole would be visible, then stop just short of the bottom of the substrate. Measure the depth of the hole from the top of the handrail, subtract a 1/4", cut some dowels at this new length. Dip the dowels in epoxy, tap them down throught the handrail into the base material, then fit a teak, mahogany or pine (if you are just painting the handrails) wood plug in place and let everything harden. Trim the plug, seal the handrail and you are done. I wish I'd learned this years ago. Oh yeah, and set the bases, as Steve suggests, in 3M 4000UV or 5200 adhesive.

If I understand your issue, the bungs would go in an area that is not visible. You can leave them out. In fact, if you are using satainless fasteners, I would recommend it. This will reduce bleeding. Traditional methods of installing bungs use varnish as a glue, but if you do not intend to remove them, there is no reason not to use epoxy. If you use epoxy, you will not be able to salvage the holes if you do need to remove them.
On my own boats, I never put bungs in an area that is not visible.

[ksmith]

Will try to post picture. Might help/explain.

[hellosailor]

Let me try some ASCII artwork:

*****wood
========= deck
^ |
outside of hull | inside of hull


and the little ^ indicates where the screws are. Is that what you are describing? The hull-deck joint extends outward from the hull, so the crew heads are underneath the lip, outside the boat?

It that's it, I would say bungs are just cosmetic and you could certainly TRY throughbolting every second or third hole to cut down on the work. If the wood warps a little or lifts, or the joint under it leaks, you're going to have to go back and do the other ones though. It is rare for a builder to use too many fasteners without good reason though--they just cost too much.

[blahman]

Do not bung.

Best,
Aaron N.

[Wotname]

As I understand the question, you have a teak toe rail that is screwed up from underneath and the screw holes in the toe rail have "wallowed out" allowing the toe rail to be floppy.
To my mind, thru bolting, while secure, would look ugly unless the top hole is bunged and you don't have much meat to play with.

I would try either of the following approaches:
1. take the rail off completely, drill out the "wallowed holes" carefully (without penetrating the rail), epoxy in bungs (not dowel), sand flat and refix to lip. The screws will bit into the bungs which should be as solid as the orginal teak.
OR
2. take the rail off completely, drill out the "wallowed holes" carefully (without penetrating the rail) but not as deeply as in step 1. Then fill the drilled hole with an epoxy glue mix (fairly thick), wait 'till it has stared to cure but is still workable, then fix to lip with the screws going into the epoxy mix. The screw should penetrate the mix and continue to bit into the wood to hold the rail enough until the epoxy cures fully. Some clamping may be necessary. This is actually stronger than screwing into new wood but does mean the screws have to heated if you want to remove them in the future. For heating, you need a fine gas torch applied to screw head for a minute or so.
Good luck with which ever way you go

[ksmith]

Hellosailor: dead on with the ASCII and thanks for the ideas.