To drop a lead keel or not?

[pbmaise]

1984 40ft fiberglass vessel sailed about 95% in Great Lakes. Vessel inside is cherry condition. How nice. Initial price very cheap.

After adding watermaker, solar, kayak, bottom/topside paint, new rigging, radar, AIS, VHF, and autopilot my total in would be around $75k.

What concerns me the most is what I am looking at below the waterline.

The vessel has been on the hard since September 2022 and it hasn't rained here for almost a week. Yet I am looking at water dripping just in front of the keel. Further there is a hairline crack along the keel and it looks like the bottom of the keel hit something solid.

There was no cover on the vessel this past winter so water may be coming in from above.

Keel weighs 7000 lbs.

Would you drop this keel? About how much would that cost? The marina I am at charges $155 per hour labor.

Is there any iron within a lead keel to account for a bulge on the side of the keel? It kind of looks like something is rusting inside.

[Peregrine1983]

If I were boat shopping, I wouldn't want the anxiety that comes with a questionable keel situation. I would probably move on, but that's me.

When it comes to old boats, I prefer models with internally glassed ballast.

If it's a bolt-on keel, I want a new-ish boat that has no evidence of flex or water intrusion.

[SailingHarmonie]

10 years ago I repaired a very serious hard grounding on a Catalina 32 in our charter fleet. It cost about $22,000. Add your own factors for boat size and ten years of inflation...

[Pauls]

Ask the yard for a quote to drop the keel.

[Fore and Aft]

Pbmaise you're dropping that keel for peace of mind and to see what is hidden behind all that old antifoul paint. I have seen similar on a Beneteau and when the keel was dropped and the antifoul removed some old repairs and delamination was clearly visible. Is there any cracking on the inside of the bilge. It might get expensive to drop the keel if the mast needs to be removed as well.
Cheers

[capt jgw]

Any time water has intruded into the hull/keel joint there's a possibility that the keel bolts are degraded. Worse if it's salt water. If it was my boat I'd drop the keel and check the bolts. If I was looking to buy I might move on, or see if I could get the seller to pay for the job (by lowering the sale price). I had a similar problem in my 1969 Columbia 36, rusty water seeping out of the joint. The forward most bolt literally crumbled when I attempted to remove the nut. That explained the leak. I dropped the keel and replaced all the bolts.
Note that they corrode down in the fiberglass. The tops of the bolts and nuts can look perfect but they can be corroded almost to nothing down below where you can't see them.

[donradcliffe]

Picture 1 says it has hit something hard, but I have seen worse.

Picture 2 is the worrying one. It looks like some delam, and if water is dripping there, I would pull the keel.

Picture 3 may be a small void the casting. Meh.

Picture 4 shows a hairline crack, which may be in some fairing compound. I've seen a lot worse.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Picture 3 may be a small void the casting. Meh.

The keels sometimes come out of the mold pretty rough and get a lot of fairing compound. Eventually it delaminates and falls off. Just knock out all the loose stuff and refair.

[pbmaise]

My reply to the seller....

At some point during the past 40 odd years this vessel hit something quite solid. Solid enough to damage the bottom of the keel. That is not so much a problem. My previous vessel was damaged at the keel too. The problem is the second photo.

The keel is 7000 lbs and is attached to the vessel with bolts. The droplet of water seen on the bottom of the hull and the streaks coming down the keel indicate water has been flowing out from between the keel and the hull.

It is odd to see water still coming out from between the hull and the keel after it has been out of the water so long. I suspect water may be coming from the bilge, passing through the bolt holes, and then flowing out through the hull. If that is what is occurring, the obvious concern is that when she is placed in the water, the water flows in reverse. Probably not a lot, but water flow itself is not the concern.

Likely, if this vessel remained in the Great Lakes, all of this would not be such a giant concern. It takes years and years and years for freshwater to degrade the bolts. This said, it has been years and years and years and I have no idea when the damage occurred and how long the bolts have been exposed to water. Further, since I would be looking to take her to salt water...any salt water leak like this would greatly effect the bolts.

I have asked the sailing community for their thoughts. They all recommend that based upon the photos the proper thing to do is to drop the keel, replace the bolts, and replace the bedding compound between the keel and hull.

This is not a project I am capable of on my own. I will be back at the boat yard tomorrow to help another sailor put on sails and will stop in and ask the yard for their thoughts. Unfortunately, it is looking likely that even if the rest of the vessel is in stellar condition, this is not a vessel that I could justify.

The ideal buyer may be someone who doesn't ever take it too far into the Great Lakes and can swim.

[WaltUnsalted]

I got into a keel bulge that revealed]something I never suspected - keels can have voids in them, filled with foam.
An ODay35 owner shared a photo of his keel off and three pockets were open to the top of the keel.

Mine appears to have split on the side, I suspect from water intrusion from a keel-hull sealant failure that froze over the winter.

I would drop the keel to know what’s going on before buying in.

[bgallinger]

I dropped the keel on my boat (fresh water) after seeing a hairline crack and a tiny bit of evidence of water seeping down. The owner of the yard told me 95% of the boats in his yard had the same issue. He suggested glassing it over and re-painting. I asked him to drop the keel anyway and paid out nearly $2000 in labour costs. My conclusion was it was money wasted.

[Seacod]

All good responses in their own right, but you would get far better intelligence by providing better information on the boat to start. Possibilities can be substantially verified by simple research on the make of boat and how they age. The quality of the photos can help too. A profile of the damaged keel (leading edge) and or one of same on the forward quarter can really help as well. Those drainage spots are shot pretty much straight on, whereas again some angle to the shot, with light directed from the side, can make clearer any bulge or swelling which you may see but is not so evident in flat light. I also often analyse things by having a straight edge with me, which aids in perceiving any distortion in bottom profile which may be a consequence of bad fairing or some form of bulging from interior water.
Incidently major destroyer of boats on the hard is water collecting in the bilge (and higher) When checking any hull climb up and open the hatches, prior to that all is clairvoyance

[pbmaise]

Ah!!! I left off a piece of vital information. Yesterday was the hottest day so far this Spring and temperatures reached above 80F.

WaltUnsalted's photo indicates a lead keel can have large void areas that could store water.

I am leaning now in the direction of bgallinger that dropping the whole keel is likely not justified. Rather, the more prudent direction is to pull bolts one at a time and inspect/replace. Then after a hot Summer on the hard to reseal to prevent new water intrusion.

I found a rather well written article on the different types of keel bolts/rods. Depending on the type of bolts this is either a relatively simple task or quite difficult.