Traditional European/Hardware Hidden Cabinetry or Open Face Cabinetry?

[Benz]

I vote for open--I only put lids and doors on places that absolutely need them, like a locker lid that's going to be sat on. A door is an extra step at sea that I simply don't want to deal with.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I’m trying to determine if people are really going to hate open face cabinetry or not. I had it on a previous boat and it worked great. You just have to make sure things were organized in it. Aesthetically.

To me, it’s a logical decision because it saves weight and time and effort.

However, I don’t want to build a boat that has zero resale value. So, I’m checking to see what people think about this one.

Would you still buy a boat that had open face cabinetry? Or would that be such a turn off that you would look for a different boat?

*Note: When deciding, please keep in mind that the front face of the open cabinetry would look just like the modern, closed cabinetry in these pictures. I would put Formica on the front that looks just like the Formica on the cabinetry in the modern Catamaran galley pic. Please try to disregard the age and different styling from different time periods that we see in these pictures. Try to imagine the modern cabinetry, but with the rounded rectangular holes instead of cabinet faces on it. Thanks!

Not for us - clean, tidy, and out of the way of dust and anything else. We have cabinet doors at home, and our boat is the same.

[PirateFoxy]

As far as cleaning with open, my personal experience has been it’s harder to clean right up against the face ‘rails’ with that kind of opening. So if cleaning is a concern (which with allergies it often is) and you opt for open, since this is all custom anyway, perhaps consider if there can be an easy way to remove the face that provides the ‘railing’ so it’s a simple job to wipe down a flat shelf and a flat face panel, rather than trying to get into the angle where they meet properly from the front reaching through the opening. That would make it much easier to regularly give everything a good clean, and for resale you could point out that if someone wants closed all they need to do is remove the faces and have doors made. So you aren’t then wasting money or weight on something you don’t care for, but you also aren’t creating a significant obstacle to resale? (Buying something to add usually goes over better with buyers than when they feel like they have to properly take something apart THEN add, as a psychological thing.)

[Yihang]

Foam cored panels are light. Balance and Outremer uses them for doors. You could even have sliding panels instead of hinges to save weight. It's probably more of a cost saving measure than a weight based one.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Foam cored panels are light. Balance and Outremer uses them for doors. You could even have sliding panels instead of hinges to save weight. It's probably more of a cost saving measure than a weight based one.

I hadn’t considered this idea.

Mixed materials cabinets might make for a good solution.

Hardwood stick and 1/4” marine ply cabinetry, with foam doors. Both glamorized with vertical grade Formica on the outside to look just like the picture of the modern catamaran in this thread.

Making the shelving and frames out of foam is a Ridiculous task, but making just the doors out of it is manageable.

[Yihang]

You can buy foam cored plywood, I believe that is what outremer uses. You can even glass it in. Would save a huge amount of weight.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Yihang

You can buy foam cored plywood, I believe that is what outremer uses. You can even glass it in. Would save a huge amount of weight.

That’s actually heavier than 1/4” Okoume and stick and frame construction if you do the math. Looks to be over twice as heavy in the pic.

This pic looks very heavy since it’s 1/2” of plywood, not Okoume and has the weight of the foam added as well.

The reason they do that is it saves then time (money) and is reasonably lightweight, but not as light as 1/4” stick and frame.

[PirateFoxy]

There was a YouTube video I saw a bit back of a tour of a custom cat rebuild and I think they said the doors were actually foil-wrapped cardboard to save weight? Looked good in the video at least. I can’t remember the name of the cat to find it again though.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s actually heavier than 1/4” Okoume and stick and frame construction if you do the math. Looks to be over twice as heavy in the pic.

This pic looks very heavy since it’s 1/2” of plywood, not Okoume and has the weight of the foam added as well.

The reason they do that is it saves then time (money) and is reasonably lightweight, but not as light as 1/4” stick and frame.

A lot stiffer than a stick build though. You'll have to do the math on the weight, I don't know if a stick built panel with two shear panels would be lighter.

Seems like an easier thing to explain to potential future customer than a stick built cabinet. Can always draw comparison to a outremer 4X which that picture is taken from.

Probably also going to squeak a lot on a catamaran.

[coopec43]

I've vowed when I build my next boat it will be built like a naval destroyer (I guess that means "open faced")

• First class materials.
• Absolutely functional
• No pretense at looks (or style)

If it was a catamaran I would definitely follow the above as lightness would be essential. And if I had to build it myself it would definitely be as above as it could be built in half the time. If I planned to do some serious sailing (a circumnavigation?) I'd want open faced (as above).

On the other hand if I wanted a "Marina Queen" I'd want eveything to be stylish so when I brought my friends aboard they'd be impressed.

[Benz]

With doors you must also factor in the weight and cost of hinges and latches. Not huge perhaps, but I know from the racing scene around here that incremental tiny things add up. All the go-fast boats I've worked on have either foam-cored carbon or very thin fg doors, or are open faced. Decolite is popular for pre-made panels that are stiff and light. Lots of cabinetry made out of that as well.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Yihang

A lot stiffer than a stick build though. You'll have to do the math on the weight, I don't know if a stick built panel with two shear panels would be lighter.

Seems like an easier thing to explain to potential future customer than a stick built cabinet. Can always draw comparison to a outremer 4X which that picture is taken from.

Probably also going to squeak a lot on a catamaran.

I’ve already done the math on the weight in March. I have a spreadsheet matrix of every possible material combination and construction method.

Stick frame with 1/4” and 1/8” Okoume is the lightest of all methods. Not panels. No interior face.

Outremer, while beloved by all here isn’t the be all end all in performance. There is room for improvement from there. This is a custom boat so it can be better than an outremer.

Your idea of doing the doors out of foam (with vertical grade Formica, not plywood in my case) is a good one. Doing the cabinets themselves out of anything aside from stick frame Okoume just adds weight. Outremer’s cabinetry in your pic is well over twice as heavy as mine will be.

You need to do the math at every step building a performance boat. I’ve done it at every step.

I’m hesitant to ruin her performance with cabinet hardware and even faces, although the foam cored Formica would fit well for cabinet doors. Those need to be double faced and stiff.

Nothing squeaks on a catamaran that doesn’t flex. My boat is a rock. 1” corecell, plenty of bulkheads. I’ve already glued and screwed temporary things out of stick frame construction and nothing moves or squeaks in any way. Not sure what you’re picturing with that.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Benz

With doors you must also factor in the weight and cost of hinges and latches. Not huge perhaps, but I know from the racing scene around here that incremental tiny things add up. All the go-fast boats I've worked on have either foam-cored carbon or very thin fg doors, or are open faced. Decolite is popular for pre-made panels that are stiff and light. Lots of cabinetry made out of that as well.

This is 100% accurate.

The metal bits that hold together drawers, cabinetry, etc are incredibly bad for a weight diet.

I went to get drawers slides last spring and WOW!! They were like 10 lbs each!

[Chotu]

I think I’ve come to realize I’m just a contrarian and a stickler for lightweight design.

The poll says “use faces” so that makes me not want to use them. Ha ha ha.

I find myself hearing the last few posts from die hard guys who are literally building boats as they read this thread, both reminding me to stay true to principles of the sea and the design and keep it light and functional.

I think, contrary to popular opinion, I’m going for the lightweight and simple cabinetry with the open faces. The last couple posters convinced me of that. Performance will trump popularity.

People who may feel the cabinetry is sub par someday when I sell her can make the decision while being passed by my boat. Ha ha ha.

I will keep the face panel with the rounded, rectangular cutouts as a removable panel as was suggested in this thread. That was another good idea. That way if it seems the boat isn’t selling someday when I’m swallowing the anchor, I can make up cabinet doors and spruce the thing up with whatever the latest fashion is.

Decision is made.

Thank you, everyone for helping and putting in your thoughts. As messy as the threads get and as crazy as I seem during a decision making process, they are a really helpful and productive exercise and have resulted in tons of new ideas about not only how my boat will be built, but will help lots of other people reading along.


I’m heading to the boat this week to start the big push and we will move aboard as soon as possible.

I’ll have a huge build thread here for entertainment and to see some of the very many great ideas we’ve talked about implemented.

Thanks again to all. I actually could not have done the interior design part without everyone’s input. I’m grateful for it.

[double u]

had open on the Wharram, made doors later.
if performance is TOP priority: have less cupboards
top performance solution: sewn storage bags