Varnish Questions

[IdoraKeeper]

Okay, I never got past 6 coats last year (it was time to sail)...now I have some cracks that leaked water and made dark spots but most of what is there is really very good. What do you guys do to repair spot areas? I am loath to take it all off only because of the inevitable loss of delicate teak in the stripping and sanding.

Todd

[Prerequisite]

I'm a big fan of the 'Brightwork' book so add another vote for procuring a copy. Also, an old salty friend of mine taught me his trick of using a small crock pot to heat the varnish to help brush it on with ease. The small crock pots only cost about $10 and work great. Mine doesn't have a temp control so I just plug it in long enough to get the varnish runny- the varnish will stay warm enough in the insulated pot that you shouldn't need to plug it in again while you are applying what you've poured. My friend only uses this method for his final coat because he hates cleaning the pot afterwards. I use it for all coats because it cleans pretty fast, but I'm told you can disposable liners that won't require any cleaning at all.

[CarlF]

+1 on the foam brushes from Jamestown. The trick is to throw them away before they load up too much. This can be as little as every 15 minutes -- especially when working on vertical surfaces.

Carl

[Shiner]

Originally Posted by s/vfootloose

Shiner, I am always interested in learning how to improve my results. I use Paint thinner(mineral spirits) for both thinning the varnish and removing any oils from what I'm going to to varnish, also to clean my brushes. In the heat here I almost never can varnish without having to thin it somewhat. Is it terminology or should I be using something else. thanks

Hi Footloose. We may be talking apples and oranges here.
Varnish is an oil based product and can certainly be thinned with Mineral Turpentine and wiped between coats after fine sanding with turps as well.

I think that you may be using a single pack poly eurethane or another similar spirit base lacquer. If that is the case. what you are doing is fine.

My point was that wiping an oil based Varnish with a spirit or thinners between coats can give a "bloom" or milky appearance to the job.

Happy "Shining"

Regards. Shiner

[SvenG]

I think I found the cause for my problem

Sometimes, a coat of varnish won't wet the prior one in some places, the surface just looks dry despite the fact that I just pulled a wet brush across it. This happens if I sand or if I don't, if I wipe it down with a tack-rag or not, if I thin the varnish or not, if I wipe it down with thinner after the tack-rag or not and as far as I can tell neither humidity or temperature has an effect.

I think the varnish I was using was just too old and despite having been in fully sealed can (both Captains and Epiphanes) they had lost too much of the volatiles. I just tried a coat using the same Captains can and thinning it almost 50% and it lay down perfectly on the same varnished surface that would not "wet" before. I'm getting some fresh cans but think I just had too "dry" varnish in the cans.



-Sven

[Blue Crab]

Matauwhi: "As to your trouble with getting the varnish to "wet out" in some areas, our experience says it is either wax or oil that is not being removed when you're sanding. You can try using mineral spirits again to remove these contaminants or using a little more aggressive sanding in these areas."

This has been my experience as well. And after sanding, no touching wiith bare hands.

[svcambria]

I use Crystal (a Detco product) with a little bit of Penetrol mixed in, applied with a brush. On the can it says an additional coat may be added without sanding before twelve hours (mas o minus), so if i get two coats a day, no sanding is needed in between. In practice, the surface gets lightly sanded every other day (i.e. after two coats).
This has resulted in a pretty durable finish which (only?) needs a couple of coats a year, usually in the spring, to maintain in sunny and humid Mexico.

Michael
S/V Cambria

[u4ea32]

Here was the standard procedure on Gitana IV.

Strip to bare wood.
4 to 6 coats (I can't remember), sand between each.

During the next four weeks, after each sail, do touch ups. Just an hour or two for a couple of guys each day.

Each month, repeat.

[barnakiel]

My take (dilute at least 1:1 with what the varnish gurus say above):

Originally Posted by SvenG

I've got a couple of questions, or even three.

1 - I've been told by some varnish craftsmen that part of the reason why they like Epiphanes is that you don't need to sand between coats.

There may be a specific Epiphanes varnish that allows you to do just this but the regular Epiphanes stuff DOES NOT. Look up the product sheet.

As soon as the stuff hardens, you have to sand, Epiphanes or not.

You do not sand when you apply the layers only within times specified in the sheet.

Epiphanes is a good make but there are many others that give just as good results: International, Hempel (Blakes), Tonkinois, etc..

I like some varnishes better than others - e.g. I like varnishes that allow me to apply 2 coats a day - so that I can apply 10 coats in a week or so.

You can get better results with garden grade varnish and top notch skills than with Epiphanes and no skills.

BTW There is a lot of very good garden grade varnish - pick up the max UV, extreme conditions stuff.

2 - When you see a mirror surface varnish is that because of careful sanding or even wet-sanding between coats or is it because there are enough coats to float out to a flat surface?

When you see top notch gloss it means the job has been done in air con garage away from dust, draft and humidity, by a pro with quality tools (what else would you expect from a pro?), often: polyurethane varnish, sprayed. Plenty of layers and sanding too, if this is what the substrate called for.

3 - Sometimes, a coat of varnish won't wet the prior one in some places, the surface just looks dry despite the fact that I just pulled a wet brush across it. This happens if I sand or if I don't, if I wipe it down with a tack-rag or not, if I thin the varnish or not, if I wipe it down with thinner after the tack-rag or not and as far as I can tell neither humidity or temperature has an effect.

I do not get this even on non-sanded areas so my guess is the area is greasy. Wipe with acetone (or whatever the product sheet suggests).

Also - have a very close look at the brush - it may be contaminated (e.g. with improper solvent/cleaner or with water).

[/QUOTE]

Cheers,
b.

[matauwhi]

G'day, mates. In reference to # 2 above, a very nice gloss finish can be accomplished by an amateur with a foam brush, almost any varnish product, on the boat, on a less than 75% humidity day, and minimizing any dust. An example, our table below, accomplished as outlined above.

[jenny2]

Originally Posted by matauwhi

G'day, mates. In reference to # 2 above, a very nice gloss finish can be accomplished by an amateur with a foam brush, almost any varnish product, on the boat, on a less than 75% humidity day, and minimizing any dust. An example, our table below, accomplished as outlined above.

very easy inside not much uv topside different story

[matauwhi]

G'day, mates. We use the same technique on our outside varnish as outlined in my posts above, see cockpit photo in earlier post and our toe rails below, down under in some of the most intense UV rays you're going find, with the same results. The varnish on the rail is 2 years old and still has some gloss. Cheers

[barnakiel]

Why does the gloss count?

I, personally, do not like the gloss. Inside I like the rubber/mat finish (things one sees in HR, Najads, Malos, etc.., outside, well, outside - I prefer NO WOOD!

I am not certain a high gloss woodwork is worth it for cruising.

Talking to the maintenance crew w (NOT the regular crew) of a fabulous Hoek I was informed that the boat goes back to the boatyard every 5 to 8 years and then all wood work is 100% renewed / refreshed / revarnished PROFESSIONALLY, in the shed. In between, the varnish crew (a small company of 8 person) is flown to the boat once a year to touch-up.

How cool is this, cruising-wise?

b.

[matauwhi]

G'day, mates. The OP asked for input on how to achieve a mirror (gloss) like finish. I have detailed how this is achieved in our cruising lifestyle. Each boat owner gets to chose how they maintain the surface finishes on their vessel. Each boat owner has different tastes and hobbies. It is possible for amateurs to achieve a very good mirror varnish finish on their vessel, if that is what they desire. Cheers.

[seabum]

Does anyone have any experience with TufShield? I'm about to refinish my first boat. I'm definitely looking for a sturdy, long-lasting finish. I was told TufShield dries faster than regular varnish so coats can be applied in less time. Any feedback? Thanks.