Vertical Capstan Windlass

[ssanzone]

I have an amazing Stephens Brother solid bronze windlass I am about to list for sale...

same model as: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ale-83657.html

The motor was just professionally rebuilt.

An amazingly beautiful and rare windlass.

-steve

[Cheechako]

I've had great luck with the vertical Maxwell windlasses. Using a rope drum on a vertical is not easy though... you essentially have to be on your knees to make it work... but the benefits of all chain on a vertical far outweigh the horizontal to me.

[Brian Russell]

We just installed a Maxwell RC 12 on our new aluminum cutter... It's all cast 316 stainless (except for the clutch plates which are bronze) and very robust. I've now assembled /disassembled it about half a dozen times (trying to get complete isolation from the metal deck-one small cut in the gasket!) and it is extremely easy to service. Has a very good manual option as well. Time will tell how it endures but Maxwell has a good rep. Main thing is to make sure you have room for whatever windlass you end up with.

[a64pilot]

So,
Guy's and Ladies, I need the 10-10 for a 25,000 lb boat?

Is there a better or more suitable windlass than the Maxwell 10-10?

I currently have two pipe hawes (sp?) one behind each anchor, should I try to find a windlass with a pipe hawse, or just line up with one the I have now even if the throws the windlass a little to one side?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Ours is the next size up, RC 10-10, although not the model with the extra capstan. Set up with 5/16" chain, 5/8" 8-plait, and a 44-lb anchor (currently).

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That is exactly why I want the smaller HT chain, I get the strength without the weight, price is more of course, just didn't know if the HT chain was more prone to rusting or something.

So the 10-10 can be had that will work with 5/15" chain?

Ummm... I think I left out part of the story. When we installed ours, Sep 07, it was a relatively new product, and the local retailer made some issue about installing the smaller 5/16" x 5/8" chainwheel on the 1200W (and higher max pull weight) 10-10 model ...

See here for model specs: Rope/Chain Series if you haven't looked at it already.

So what I have is maybe a bit of an early custom jobbie, but in any case the invoice says "RC 10-10 windlass with 5/16 x 5/8 chainwheel." (And the chainwheel swap was as a result of his recommendation, discussion, no extra cost, etc.)

And then yes, I have 5/16" HT chain and 5/8' nylon brait (8-plait).

Bridge controls, foot switches at the bow, rode counter, etc. (Latter doesn't count rope very well, or at least I've not reconciled calibration to arrive at any sort of accuracy yet.)

-Chris

[Hud3]

Suggestion...

A toggle switch at the helm pedestal is very handy for a single-hander.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Suggestion...

A toggle switch at the helm pedestal is very handy for a single-hander.

Hmmm. yeah, sorta. Our anchor won't self-launch, and it's all locked down anyway... Still, once it's approaching its destination underwater, the helm controls could make the rest of the job easier for a single-hander.

I have the luxury of an alternative pilot, though, so I usually drive the anchor from the bow. In our case, that's especially important when bringing the whole muddy mess back aboard. Well, actually in trying to NOT bring the whole muddy mess aboard, using the raw water washdown, etc.

-Chris

[UNCIVILIZED]

I can't help but wonder that of all of the Maxwell owners chiming in, that the VW/VWC series hasn't been mentioned. Any comments on this, particularly as, for quite a long time, this has kind of been their flagship model. And are of the vertical type as well. Ditto on their Liberty series.

a64pilot About your hawse question. I'd suggest thinking towards a setup so that you can use your windlass on either of two anchors independently, with them both down at the same time.
Not that I'd plan on doing it much, or that I'd want to anyway (knock on wood). But since it sounds as if you're more or less reconfiguring your whole ground tackle system, why cross options off of the list before you even get started.

As that relates to hawses, for me anyway, that'd mean having a setup where I can use rodes out of 2 separate ones. Say, your primary, further aft, near or at the windlass, & then further forward, your #2.
Though this might even mean having to lift one rode off of the wildcat, & move the other one onto it, if both anchors have a lot of chain on them.

However you decide to do it though, such things are dictated by your boat's setup, both on deck & below. And your willingness to modify these.
I'm not much familiar with how your roller(s) & bow, above & blow decks are setup. So I'd be guessing were I to suggest mounting what hardware, where.

One other thought is that some of these windlasses are almost literally geared for a certain type & size of rope rode. Ones which to me seem smaller than you'll be using with some fair regularity. Let alone in more boisterous conditions.
Using 3/4" 3-strand or double braid (and at times larger) on vessels of that size, windage , & displacement are common. So factor that in as well when sizing things. And also make sure your windlass can also take a gypsy that'll handle both 3/8" BBB & HT, even if you never plan to use either. The vessel's next owner may choose to, so might you, or it may be the chain of choice of the moment. So it's prudent to have the option.

You comment about concerns regarding HT chain rusting. Odds are you're referring to schedule 70 chain. Which commonly isn't used as anchor chain/in the marine environment. So while you can find such chain which has been hot dip galvanized, it's a lot more rare than the lower strength grades of chain.
Standard grade 70 chain is galvanized, just not in the same fashion as anchor chain is (typically).

[Terra Nova]

My very best installation had 2 counter-rotating vertical capstan winches, and 3 bow rollers fanned out (aimed at the gap between the 2 windlasses) such that either windlass could pull from any roller. The chain locker was divided into 2 tall, skinny lockers, side by side, so the chain piles could not topple.

On an all-chain rode, it is good to optimize the windlass's location for the primary anchor roller.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So,
Guy's and Ladies, I need the 10-10 for a 25,000 lb boat?

Is there a better or more suitable windlass than the Maxwell 10-10?

I currently have two pipe hawes (sp?) one behind each anchor, should I try to find a windlass with a pipe hawse, or just line up with one the I have now even if the throws the windlass a little to one side?

If you imagine using your windlass to get unstuck sometimes, don't even think about getting the minimum size recommended. You will tear it up.

[Jim Cate]

Something that no one has mentioned: While not particularly fun, one can indeed wrap chain around the "rope" drum on a windlass and effectively bring it in. It will scar the drum a bit, but it works if needed. IMO, this is a better option than trying to shift between two chain rodes on one wildcat wheel, a practice that is likely to remove fingers from the operators hands!.

We've used the drum on our VWC-1500 for various purposes, such as hoisting me up the mast, warping into a dock, raising a secondary anchor (mostly rope rode), kedging off when aground and so on. Seems to work just fine, but some discretion is advised as always with lines under great tension. We have some strong snatch blocks and a perforated toe rail, and this allows one to get decent lead angles to the drum from a variety of load locations.

Cheers,

Jim

PS: Some one asked about comments on the VWC series of windlasses. We've found ours to be pretty good in general. Did bugger up the worm gears after severely overloading the windlass with the chain wrapped on boulders and snapping the snubber in an unforecast windshift in Tasmania (severe snubbing against building surge and wind waves, sufficient to drive the 56:1 worm drive backwards before I could rig a new snubber). My main complaint about the design is that the manual override is essentially useless.

[Terra Nova]

Jim brings up a good point--that windlass damage might be avoided by using a sufficient chain stopper, separate of the windlass.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Something that no one has mentioned: While not particularly fun, one can indeed wrap chain around the "rope" drum on a windlass and effectively bring it in. It will scar the drum a bit, but it works if needed. IMO, this is a better option than trying to shift between two chain rodes on one wildcat wheel, a practice that is likely to remove fingers from the operators hands!.

We've used the drum on our VWC-1500 for various purposes, such as hoisting me up the mast, warping into a dock, raising a secondary anchor (mostly rope rode), kedging off when aground and so on. Seems to work just fine, but some discretion is advised as always with lines under great tension. We have some strong snatch blocks and a perforated toe rail, and this allows one to get decent lead angles to the drum from a variety of load locations.

Jim, when I was referring to shifting between chains on the wildcat, my meaning was that one would only be doing so when there was ZERO load on the part which the deck hand was handling. As in both chains would be held in place by chain stoppers, & possibly snubbers as well, while they were being swapped.
I was just assuming that folks would know as much. Kinda' a common sense thing.

Another technique for using one's capstan to handle loads from unusual angles/eccentric loads, assuming you have a stout roller. Is to rig up a short strop around the roller & affix a good sized block to it. Thus, you can apply a lot of pull from a multiplicity of angles. The same technique applies to well secured/backed up pad eyes also.
And said technique is especially handy if you have a horizontal windlass, as they're much more limited in terms of pulling angles.

If you require some serious "grunt", perhaps in excess of what the windlass alone will do. There's always the option of going to a block & tackle, to get say a 2-4:1 on top of the windlasses pull. Though one needs to make absolutely certain that all of the hardware being used in such a setup is up for the task. As with that kind of power on tap, the loads can climb pretty quickly.

However, in a "worst case" situation, like say where it's just you, and you HAVE to pull the boat free. Using 3-600' of line in a block & tackle arrangement, shackled between the stem & the (freed up & laid out towards clear waters) bitter end of one's full sized ground tackle gear might give you both the needed reach, & pull to free yourself.

One caveat with regards to using a windlass for other chores, aside from anchoring. On a lot of boats, if they at all have decent sized winches, often enough, it's not too tough to equal the pull of a windlass using one's primaries.
Indeed, in a pinch, with a couple of lengths of line paired with chain hooks, they can be used to retrieve the anchor & rode if the windlass is flat.

[Terra Nova]

The vertical capstan windlass is far more versatile when re-purposed for other tasks, as it leads freely to all compass points along the deck. And so a snatch block can be positioned virtually anywhere there is line of sight to the capstan.

[a64pilot]

Apparently the 10-10 with 5/16" chain is the 10-8 with a 1000 W motor and not the 1200 W.

So which windlass would you pick of these two and why?
Maxwell RC10-8 Vertical Rope / Chain Windlass
I have the ability of rope/chain rode, less money

Maxwell VWC 1000 Series Vertical Windlass Kit Little more money, chain only rode

Or a different one, but which different one and why?