What is good switchboard wiring?

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

Use as few connections as possible, there's loss in every connection.
Label, label, label! Draw a wiring schematic, use labels. It will save you much grief in the future. I had to buy a relatively expensive wire tracing unit to figure out where much of the wiring on the current boat goes, it sucked.
Support all your wiring, vibration will cause all kinds of issues.
Use shrink wrap connectors, they will also save you much hassle in the future.
Use the ABYC standards as a guide, their mostly there for safety standards.
And of course your using tinned wire.
Do you have fuses on your main battery connections? Many older boats don't. It could be the difference between losing the boat or just a battery.
Neat, clean and supported will be OK with a surveyor, they look for the quality and safety of your wiring, they're going to know it's not a factory job, most boats get wired internally during construction when there's more access. It's difficult to do on a completed boat.
The biggest hassle I had was figuring out the old wiring, many contractors had been into my boat prior to my ownership, most did it quick and dirty, while leaving all the old wiring there. The wiring bundle from the panel was so big I couldn't run new wire. Pulling the old stuff became the major work. First tracing it, then removing dead wiring, some was still live with no fuses! Just left to dangle.
Neat, clean and supported will usually make a surveyor happy, oh, and good quality wiring and connectors.

Thank you! That's about the best advice I've had so far and from someone who has "been there/done that"

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

All of my wires are labeled wherever possible.

I use heat shrink tubing labels printed on an Epson LW-PX300 printer which can handle the heat shrink tubing tapes:

https://labelworks.epson.com/epson-l...0-printer.html

The heat shrink wire marker tubing comes in different sizes (AWG's). Note there are larger tubing sizes available which do NOT fit this printer (they are for the higher cost professional electrician printers only)..

I usually install labels on:

---The wire going from fuse (fuse block) to the switch.
---The wire going from the switch to the load
---The ground wire coming from the load where it is attached to the ground bus.

It significantly increases the work adding these labels, but it helps troubleshooting in the long run.

Use a heat gun (not a lighter) to shrink the tubing (the heat gun is your friend).

For large diameter wires/cables, I print a normal Brother label, stick it to the cable and wrap it with clear shipping tape to secure it to the wire.

My elec panel is neat, but not as neat as the production one pictured in the beginning of this blog, as I am adding wires as I add components. The boat basically came with no electrical stuff installed. So, I have a small amount of "wire soup"..

my two cents.

cheers

Excellent! Thank you.
Finally advice from people who know what they are on about (instead of the inevitable armchair experts who have never wired up a boat.)

[coopec43]

[QUOTE=sinnerman;3866614]

Originally Posted by Hartleyg

My $.02..

The second picture has the above-mentioned wire color issues (it is VERY disturbing to see blue being used for both positive AND negative! but the fuse panel is neatly and readably labeled - a real plus. ..

Interesting point.

My boat is a Catalina 30 circa 1984 and per the old Catalina documentation has (had?) a very basic wiring color code for about six wires in the boat's lighting circuits.

Most of ABYC stuff I encountered about color codes was specific to the engine harness / engine control panel gauges.

Almost all the DC wires I installed in the electrical panel are red/black.

Wire colors for the engine harness are to code.

Interesting note: the "NEW" color code for the DC GROUND wire is now YELLOW to prevent confusion with BLACK "Neutral" wire in the boat's 120 volt AC system.

Duplex DC wires now are available in Red/yellow. (see below)

My two cents

Cheers

Actually the second photo is not of my wiring but a photo of wiring similar to mine. (I haven't mentioned that before)

I'm still finishing off a few matters such as securing water tanks etc but I will certainly be looking at tidying up the wiring in a few weeks,

Thanks

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by coopec43

There are the ABYC color codes for electrical cabling but I quickly decided they apply to manufacturers and not amateur boat builders.

White, green, blue, black wires to a bus bar.
Red, yellow, black wires to circuit breakers.

This would would be an "A" comment in my report.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Excellent! Thank you.
Finally advice from people who know what they are on about (instead of the inevitable armchair experts who have never wired up a boat.)

Whoa there pardner! You have received a lot of advice in this thread by many experienced folks, some of who are marine electrical professionals. I would venture most of them are not armchairs experts; they are sailors with boats with electrical systems they fitted or maintained.

No one is forcing you to take their advice but don't disrespect them if you don't like their advice. They took the time to respond to your thread; thank them for their time and move on; or at least, move on.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

Use as few connections as possible, there's l
And of course your using tinned wire.
Do you have fuses on your main battery connections? Many older boats don't. It could be the difference between losing the boat or just a battery.
Neat, c
.

I find your advice excellent and, yes, I have used tinned wired but I wonder if it is necessary?


Tinned Wire Myth Busted
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sys...re-myth-busted


Marine Systems: Wire Exposure Test Update
https://www.practical-sailor.com/boa...re-test-update

[Andrew Lippman]

In my experience nothing substitutes for good prints and good wire labeling. I love those numbers especially when they are referenced to continusously updated prints. It's a last resort to pull bundles apart and feel your way along the wires to the bad pump or pump connection.

A really good practice is to run boat wires to a nice mini-M connection block assembly. Not only is it beautiful but there is a place for labels and a place to place a meter. Then a short bundle to the switches/breakers.

I have also found that most often the switch panel is not the source of the problem. It is relatively dry and protected. But relays and other connections can be faulty. I would vote for the neat panel. It shows you are a credible electrician.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lippman

In my experience nothing substitutes for good prints and good wire labeling. I love those numbers especially when they are referenced to continusously updated prints. It's a last resort to pull bundles apart and feel your way along the wires to the bad pump or pump connection.

A really good practice is to run boat wires to a nice mini-M connection block assembly. Not only is it beautiful but there is a place for labels and a place to place a meter. Then a short bundle to the switches/breakers.

I have also found that most often the switch panel is not the source of the problem. It is relatively dry and protected. But relays and other connections can be faulty. I would vote for the neat panel. It shows you are a credible electrician.

Thank you for that. I'll keep that in mind when I rewire before the Surveyor can spot my effort so far.


I am bewildered when people (who know I have built the boat from scratch) say I should have sat down and drawn up circuit diagrams first. (I hope they never try to build a boat!



How can I do that when I don't know what electrical equipment I am going to install? I have just (in the last week) installed a depth sounder and two way radio. I hadn't planned to install a rudder angle indicator or solar panels but I have and they work fine.


But now everything works and I don't plan to install anything further I want to tidy up the switchboard. Every cable has heat shrink so I move the bus-bar (if necessary) and if logical move the cables around on the bus-bars. I will also number the cables and provide a list of numbers/purpose of cable.
If I spent a day I could make a huge improvement.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by coopec43

.......
I am bewildered when people (who know I have built the boat from scratch) say I should have sat down and drawn up circuit diagrams first. (I hope they never try to build a boat!



How can I do that when I don't know what electrical equipment I am going to install? I have just (in the last week) installed a depth sounder and two way radio. I hadn't planned to install a rudder angle indicator or solar panels but I have and they work fine.


But now everything works and I don't plan to install anything further I want to tidy up the switchboard. Every cable has heat shrink so I move the bus-bar (if necessary) and if logical move the cables around on the bus-bars. I will also number the cables and provide a list of numbers/purpose of cable.
If I spent a day I could make a huge improvement.....

No one has said you have to draw up everything first! You can do it as you go; the diagrams are a living document, they grow as your additional equipment is added.

Q- how did you install anything if you didn't know that you were installing it?
A- first you had to know that you were going to say put in a battery and battery switch. Now you can either draw it on paper and install it or you can install it and then put it on paper. Either way works. The point is you don't have to leave all the wires loose to be able to track then in the future, you look at the paper and say, oh yes, I remember, I put the wires on ....

Now that the job is finished, you can do the paper drawings as you tidy up the job.

Did you built the boat from plans or from scratch without looking at the plans?

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I find your advice excellent and, yes, I have used tinned wired but I wonder if it is necessary?
Tinned Wire Myth Busted
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sys...re-myth-busted
Marine Systems: Wire Exposure Test Update
https://www.practical-sailor.com/boa...re-test-update

The info in the links you posted is valid, one of the main ideas being to keep oxygen and moisture from the wire ends by means of effective sealing.
Is tinned wire always necessary? No, but I'll quote part of my own post that was in the beginning of this thread, (post #2,) "Perceptions shape opinions".
Let's say that a prospective buyer reads surveys on two boats, either of which he feels would meet his needs/wants.
One survey reads; "Wiring appears well done using tinned marine grade cables/wires/terminals".
Another survey reads; "Wiring is scattered/jumbled and the cables/wiring/terminals are not of tinned marine grade construction".
Which one will he choose? Would you not think that a couple of simple sentences might tilt the choice one way or another?
Whether the info in the links, (or what any of us believe is true or not,) will probably have little to no effect on what that buyer perceives as "better".
As an aside, many years ago I and some others were doing a bunch of "odd jobs" to get a boat "spruced up", systems serviced and ready to sell.
It was a beautiful cold molded yacht, of Kauri wood, impeccably built with a great interior and rig.
Unfortunately, the entire AC wiring scheme had been done with "extension cords", yep, buy a bunch of 50 and 100' cords, cut off the plugs, and wire the boat with them.
Replacing all that probably cost somebody a fortune.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

As an aside, many years ago I and some others were doing a bunch of "odd jobs" to get a boat "spruced up", systems serviced and ready to sell.
It was a beautiful cold molded yacht, of Kauri wood, impeccably built with a great interior and rig.
Unfortunately, the entire AC wiring scheme had been done with "extension cords", yep, buy a bunch of 50 and 100' cords, cut off the plugs, and wire the boat with them.
Replacing all that probably cost somebody a fortune.

I'm sure my household extension leads are tinned. The plugs that go into the inverter are completely sealed. But what about the other end that plug into the HWS, microwave and galley power point?

I have had a household electrician (who sails a 32ft trimaran) check my set-up and he had no problems. I think I have to get my set-up certified by a qualified person anyway.

Thanks

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I find your advice excellent and, yes, I have used tinned wired but I wonder if it is necessary?

From the article you linked ...

"Be sure that the terminations on any cabling in your boat are hermetically sealed. Standard crimp connectors don’t do the job. They leave the wire ends exposed to moisture, and eventually corrosion will begin at the terminal and migrate into the conductor as the moisture tracks up the wire under the insulation via capillary action. By using heat-shrink crimp terminals or adhesive-lined heat-shrink tubing on conventional crimp connectors, you can effectively seal the ends of all the wire on your boat."

I don't see any of the recommended connections in your wiring.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I have had a household electrician (who sails a 32ft trimaran) check my set-up and he had no problems.

Does he have any marine electrical system training ? There are significant differences between wiring a house and a boat.

My very good friend and neighbour retired a few years ago as President of IEEE. He also has numerous electrical control patents and sold his company to Fluke a few years back. He was shocked at the deficiencies I found in his Princess MY when I did his survey. He was unaware of the marine differences.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

From the article you linked ...

I don't see any of the recommended connections in your wiring.

You have keen eyes.


As I said in an earlier post the second photo is not of my yacht. (But my wiring is of a similar standard.)

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Does he have any marine electrical system training ? There are significant differences between wiring a house and a boat.

My very good friend and neighbour retired a few years ago as President of IEEE. He also has numerous electrical control patents and sold his company to Fluke a few years back. He was shocked at the deficiencies I found in his Princess MY when I did his survey. He was unaware of the marine differences.

He lives in a fishing town so it is quite possible he is qualified. But it is not a big deal as I only have 3 leads and I could replace them in a few hours.

But what about inverters? Are they certified for marine use? I'm about replace mine so I'll tread carefully.