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cat man do · 23-05-2007, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by learningcurve

Yep, thats the stuff. Very versatile.

They use woven roving's and I assume choppies and polyester resin.

This would have no place on any foam layup I was doing.

If paying the extra for foam, I would pay the extra for Kevlar, stitched fabric's and epoxy and really take advantage of the weight saving's.

I would also use PVC not urethane foam.

Interesting how they always say it is 35% to 40% lighter than ply, but that would be a 1 inch thick coosa panel compared to 1 inch thick ply.

Not 1 inch coosa compared to 3/8 ply with some cedar stringers.

Dave

**Alan Wheeler** · 24-05-2007, 00:36

Guy's, this has to be kept simple a cheap. I guess Sean is building as it is on the water and as they are living aboard. So it needs simplicity and little expense. IMO, ply is the best alternative. Yes it maybe heavier, but it is not the hull of a racing boat folks. Just a cabin extension.

cat man do · 24-05-2007, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

Guy's, this has to be kept simple a cheap. I guess Sean is building as it is on the water and as they are living aboard. So it needs simplicity and little expense. IMO, ply is the best alternative. Yes it maybe heavier, but it is not the hull of a racing boat folks. Just a cabin extension.

Toataly agree.

Dave

24-05-2007, 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat man do

They use woven roving's and I assume choppies and polyester resin.

Nope. No chopped glass. It is all continuous strand. And there is no resin. The suspension is all in the foam.

You could use it as core for stringers IF it was glassed over. But this would be overkill. Glass over Airex or some kind of PVC for stringers would get the same result for less cost.

And, it would not be suitable for exterior work unless it was laminated.

Coosa is very stiff. I often laminate both sides with 17oz glass to make it even stiffer. And it still is lighter than ply.

But yes, as per this thread, Sean doesnt need this sort of stuff. You asked about it, I answered.

ssullivan · 26-05-2007, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

Guy's, this has to be kept simple a cheap. I guess Sean is building as it is on the water and as they are living aboard. So it needs simplicity and little expense. IMO, ply is the best alternative. Yes it maybe heavier, but it is not the hull of a racing boat folks. Just a cabin extension.

Hey guys... just got back from putting a few hundred miles under the keel, so sorry for the lapse.

I appreciate the advice. Like Wheels says above though... cheap is the word of the day. Why? It's just going to be a platform to live and work from, which is how we are using our Gulfstar Hirsh right now. Maybe someday, after a lot of living and working to build a kitty, we'll buy another sailboat and dispose of the ugly monster I'm putting together.

Then again, maybe not, depending on many things (wife, etc...).

Either way, we will be building the wheelhouse extension while living aboard in the water... Wheels got that right. Now that I'm up in Maine, I have seen DOZENS of these boats. Some already have the wheelhouse extension (for cold water fishing) so I may end up inheriting someone else's poor construction job.

But... I'll probably get one like the picture I posted and do it myself to be sure it's done in a way that doesn't leak.

I'll steer clear of the GordMay issues, as I am too tired to debate him right now. Been making passages. Suffice to say, it's ongoing stuff from the old Flying Pig drama. I got a little fed up with him badgering me since then, and let it out a bit in this thread. Sorry for the rant.

southernman · 28-05-2007, 03:49

Shaun, why would a guy with all your stated degrees in physics be asking our advise in here? Surely you would know the answers already? Honestly man I've got to wonder if you just enjoy picking a fight with people in here. Gord was providing what I'd call reasonable advise considering your questions. I've been away from here for sometime and it seems nothing changes on this board.

All the best.

ssullivan · 28-05-2007, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernman

Shaun, why would a guy with all your stated degrees in physics be asking our advise in here? Surely you would know the answers already? Honestly man I've got to wonder if you just enjoy picking a fight with people in here. Gord was providing what I'd call reasonable advise considering your questions. I've been away from here for sometime and it seems nothing changes on this board.

All the best.

Ahh... the old pot calling the kettle black routine. Stop by, pick a fight with me and then tell me I'm picking a fight. Interesting.

Let me actually take the time to answer your questions though:

"Shaun, why would a guy with all your stated degrees in physics be asking our advise in here? Surely you would know the answers already?"

Because only someone who is an arrogant, pig headed idiot who thinks they "know it all" would pass up the opportunity to ask hundreds of people for advice. Not being one of them, I need to reach out and see if others have found effective ways of doing something. One can always learn, especially from a group like this. In case you haven't been in a science/engineering school, they don't teach you boat building materials courses there. Just methods of calculating roll periods and moments of inertia.

If you'd like to test me to see about my "stated" degree and the work I did at NASA, why don't you quiz me about some of the following:

Moments of Inertia
Multidimensional Calculus
Differential Equations
Chaos Theory / Non-Linear Dynamics
Plasma Physics
The NASA missions CLUSTER, ACE and FAST
The Earth's Magnetosphere
Fourier Analysis
Tensor Analysis
Linear Algebra
Quantum
Special and General Relativity
etc...

or in computers

History of Computing
C++
JAVA
Object Oriented Design
Constructor/Destructors
Classes and Methods
Variable Types
Event Handling
Threadding
Exception Handling
Oracle DBs
Any general relational database
SQL
etc...

So please... before you pick a fight with me and cast doubt on my "stated" degree and experience in science and computers - find out who you are taliking to.

Oh, and "All the best" to you as well.

southernman · 28-05-2007, 04:43

ok man take your pills - to be honest mate go and get a designer involved - with all those degrees the one thing you probably learnt is the value of a well designed boat. If you don't get a design you really run a big risk. I was just pointing that out to you and you hosed down GordMay's comments. Um pick a fight? - I think you threw the first punch at Gord.

Oh and I do have a degree in engineering and yes they did teach carbon fibre, foam, and fibreglass use.

My main point really is that their are soooo many undesigned home built boats that get into problems. Why should someone or anyone be able to make considerable changes to a proven design without getting basic engineering calcs done? Can I go and chop up my car and put it back on the road? No. Can I totally redesign my house without an engineer? No. The same should apply for a boat and Gord was trying to make this point?

I'll stand by my previous post - you are good entertainment on here that is the one Moment of Inertia!

All the best.

cat man do · 28-05-2007, 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernman

ok man take your pills - to be honest mate go and get a designer involved - with all those degrees the one thing you probably learnt is the value of a well designed boat. If you don't get a design you really run a big risk. I was just pointing that out to you and you hosed down GordMay's comments. Um pick a fight? - I think you threw the first punch at Gord.

Oh and I do have a degree in engineering and yes they did teach carbon fibre, foam, and fibreglass use.

My main point really is that their are soooo many undesigned home built boats that get into problems. Why should someone or anyone be able to make considerable changes to a proven design without getting basic engineering calcs done? Can I go and chop up my car and put it back on the road? No. Can I totally redesign my house without an engineer? No. The same should apply for a boat and Gord was trying to make this point?

I'll stand by my previous post - you are good entertainment on here that is the one Moment of Inertia!

All the best.

In some counties you can chop a car and design a house without an engineer.

It's just that in some countries they have tough regulation's.

I personally would have thought what sulli want's to do is pretty easy, and would not have thought that it would add much more weight than 2 people, so can't really see it affecting the sea keeping characteristic's of the boat that much, and certainly not the structure.

It's not as if he is chopping the keel, or adding 10 foot on a rig.

It's just a lightish roof and sides on the back of a fishing boat.

See it done on old trawlers all the time in OZ to great effect

It ain't rocket science.

Dave

Lancerbye · 28-05-2007, 07:05

I have to agree with Catmando Having done this myself and having seen this done on a lot of boats on the Westcoast(when fishing went south). It isn't that complex. One thing to remember though where I have seen mistakes made in converting a commercial fishing boat to beautiful liveaboards is that you will have to add ballast if the boat doesn't have ballast tanks. These boats were designed to carry a big payload and get top heavy without it. A turtled vessel is not a pretty sight.

Terra Nova · 28-05-2007, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernman

..Honestly man I've got to wonder if you just enjoy picking a fight with people in here. Gord was providing what I'd call reasonable advise considering your questions.

All the best.

Yo South,

perhaps you should read Gord's comments again (..I doubt that Sean has the either inclination or the skills to perform an engineering study..).

Sulli was justified in taking offense at this very personal affront, as he should be with yours as well.

There is no call to denigrate anyone here.

best, andy

ssullivan · 28-05-2007, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Yo South,

perhaps you should read Gord's comments again (..I doubt that Sean has the either inclination or the skills to perform an engineering study..).

Sulli was justified in taking offense at this very personal affront, as he should be with yours as well.

There is no call to denigrate anyone here.

best, andy

Thanks, Andy.

I did read both of these statements as very personal affronts, which they clearly were. All backpedaling of the offenders aside, one called me stupid and the other called me an A hole. So... naturally, I responded.

Anyway, Catmando couldn't be more correct. This is a SIMPLE little wheelhouse extension. All the armchair sailors piping in here with their opinions on the design of the boat are way off the mark and way off topic. This thread is about what MATERIALS are best to construct a wheelhouse extension from.

Lancer is correct too... you need to add ballast to most of these boats as they were indeed designed to carry large payloads.

I have seen dozens of these boats with extensions on them now that I'm in Maine. You folks who don't live on the water and are just sitting there spouting out garbage about stability need to really take your pills as well. These boats CONSERVATIVELY carry 5000lbs of cargo. VERY conservatively. You'd have to be a bonehead to build a wheelhouse extension that was more than a couple thousand pounds... hence my question about what materials are cheap, light weight and waterproof.

Let's all stick to the topic of the thread and discuss the MATERIALS that are best to build a wheelhouse extension with. If you want to start a new thread where you can sit in your office or home chair and debate the stability of my new project, by all means do so. I'll even join in and toss a few equations for calculating moments of inertia. BUT... let's stick to the topic on this thread.

PS: Southernman - if you are an engineer, you know the difference between Physics and Engineering. Why on Earth would I have a carbon fiber and materials class in Physics coursework?

Terra Nova · 28-05-2007, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Let's all stick to the topic of the thread and discuss the MATERIALS that are best to build a wheelhouse extension with.

Yo Sulli,

back to materials choice:

Along with CHEAP, has to be found PRACTICAL, as in easy for a layman to obtain (cheaply) and install, using simple tools normally readily available, if not already at hand.

As you are a man of some intelligence,experience and ability, I expect you will find little difficulty if you decide to pursue this modification. I see no need to bust the budget by hiring a naval architect. Once you have decided on a plan, you might try mocking-up the outline full size on the boat, using some furring strips, clamps or hot-glue and string, so you can stand back and see what it will look like. This can show you quickly where changes in design must be made before committing the actual building materials.

Traditionally, a boat's lines are established "by eye." Lines are faired by eye. And for a project of this sort to be considered a success, it will be pleasing to the eye. Construction details and scantlings can be determined by looking at what has been successful on previous boats, and applying some Kentucky windage. It isn't nuclear science. Good luck with your plan.

best, andy

ssullivan · 28-05-2007, 12:04

Agreed, Andy.

I am strongly leaning toward the plywood with the spaced beams approach. Also, I will give painted canvas a try, since I can always take it off and start over with fiberglass if need be. I used the same approach with tung oil for our wood. It's held up better than varnish would have IMO.

I am still a little stuck on the camber for the roof though. Not sure if it should have one or not. I would like to use that surface to collect rainwater, so a camber would require some gutters. A flat roof with a lip around the edge would trap more water... kind of the opposite of what you would normally want, but good for rain water collection. I figure I'll shovel off the snow in the winter like I do with my current deck.

Anyway, this concept is in the "investigation" stage, so until my current boat is sold and I find the right fishing vessel to convert, I'll be just gathering info and theorizing. Hopefully, I'll be deep in this project by mid-summer.