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downunder · 24-01-2013, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

That's absolutely 100% incorrect.
Rope/Chain Series

I note you are 100% correct.

**Jim Cate** · 24-01-2013, 22:38

Matt, here's something to think about: At sea, you will take on water through the chain pipe. In heavy weather, you will be surprised by the quantity! Being able to keep that water out of your bilge is a good thing, and the valve, while it gives y ou some control, does not keep it out on a long term basis.

So, you might well consider putting in a false floor to the locker, above your laden water line, and then putting direct overboard drains through the hull. Incorporating a simple flap valve to keep errant waves from coming in is a good idea as well.

This has worked on our boat for years now, even without the flap.

And FWIW, we have a VWC1500 winch. OUr ground tackle consists of about 80 metres of 10 mm short link chain and a 60 lb Manson Supreme. This model has proven adequate in terms of lifting power, but did suffer a failure of the worm gear recently after many years of service (full time cruising, perennial anchor-out).

Finally, most folks that I know lash the bitter end of the chain to a strong point in the chain locker. The lashing is long enough to come out on deck where in an emergency it can be quickly cut. Using some sort of shackle begs the case of it being so heavily loaded that it becomes inoperable... and this includes snap shackles!

Cheers,

Jim

CFR · 25-01-2013, 01:39

I have a hydraulic winch on my 44 feet boat and i really like it. it is 25 years old and running smoothly. I suggest that you should consider a hydraulic system which in the long run is easier to maintain and cheaper then any electrical system, no cable, batteries, charge issues at all. mine is made from brass, no corrosin internally due to the hydraulic oil and easy greasing out side. ot is simply directly coupled to a oil pump at the engine.

Matt sachs · 25-01-2013, 07:07

Finally, most folks that I know lash the bitter end of the chain to a strong point in the chain locker. The lashing is long enough to come out on deck where in an emergency it can be quickly cut. Using some sort of shackle begs the case of it being so heavily loaded that it becomes inoperable... and this includes snap shackles!

I knew there had to be a better way.

Thanks Guys this newby is learning a lot!

Matt sachs · 25-01-2013, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

I note you are 100% correct.

As I understand it the chain wheel and the capstan do not operate independently. So if there is a chian on it, the capstan is useless. Is this right?

delmarrey · 25-01-2013, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

Finally, most folks that I know lash the bitter end of the chain to a strong point in the chain locker. The lashing is long enough to come out on deck where in an emergency it can be quickly cut. Using some sort of shackle begs the case of it being so heavily loaded that it becomes inoperable... and this includes snap shackles!

I knew there had to be a better way.

Thanks Guys this newby is learning a lot!

So, how big does a snap shackle have to be for 50% of your chain breaking strength?

Quote:

Each component is then run through a salt corrosion test to identify any contamination or chance for staining and ultrasonically cleaned afterwards.

Next, each and every snap shackle is tension pulled to 50% of its breaking strength and also released under load.

This is not a random statistical process, every single snap shackle is pull tested and verified as to holding the stated working load.

After proof testing, the shackle is hand buffed and then cleaned again.

Finally, one last thorough hand inspection is done on each item to verify that nothing is left unchecked.

The result is a shackle that could pass as a piece of jewelry and exceeded the specifications for a part used in the space shuttle.

.

Matt Johnson · 25-01-2013, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

Thanks Delmarrey. How is your bitter end connected? Chapmans reccomends some sort of attachment with a quick way to disconnect it so the ground tackle can be let go in an emergency. Does anyone do that?

I attached the bitter end of my chain with a 3/8" piece of Amsteel. I wanted to be able to cut it loose if something goes really wrong... almost had to do that two months ago, but the windlass was strong enough to pull us to the anchor (genoa car's adjusting line wrapped around the prop), in huge waves.

We also have 200' of chain, 250' of 5/8 line, two 8" fenders, Fortress 23 anchor, windlass motor, two 30' 3/4" dock lines, and boat hook all in our anchor locker. It's amazing what will fit in there, but we only have a depth of about 3' and still get pile up on the chain and need to knock it down if it's all out.

**Jim Cate** · 25-01-2013, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

So, how big does a snap shackle have to be for 50% of your chain breaking strength?

.

G'Day Del,

Those are nice looking snap shackles indeed, and if they really do load test each one, I'm impressed!

Yet even the largest one isn't as strong as 10 mm chain... but in fact, I don't think that has much bearing on the issue. I can't imagine a situation where you would want to lie to the chain with the load on the emergency release mechanism.

And I suspect that the cost of that shackle is somewhat higher than a lashing made up of an old genoa sheet! Really, the only time the bitter end should come under load is when you are about to jettison it anyway... or in the case of a runaway chain, I suppose. In that unfortunate situation, having the bitter end secured by a bit of somewhat stretchy line would be far better than a shackle which could transfer a big shock load to the strong point.

Cheers,

Jim

**Jim Cate** · 25-01-2013, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

As I understand it the chain wheel and the capstan do not operate independently. So if there is a chian on it, the capstan is useless. Is this right?

Matt, I'm not sure if you are referring to the Maxwell VWC series here... but on that sort of winch the warping drum and chain wheel are indeed independent.

We often use the warping drum on ours to hoist me up the mast while at anchor... saves a lot of sweat!

Cheers,

Jim

Matt sachs · 25-01-2013, 13:45

Oh, I was talkng abou the RC-12. It has an optional Capstan. The description of the VWC says that they work independently, the RC-12 description dosent actually say it.

**Jim Cate** · 25-01-2013, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt sachs

Oh, I was talkng abou the RC-12. It has an optional Capstan. The description of the VWC says that they work independently, the RC-12 description dosent actually say it.

Well, honestly, I can't see the point of a NON-independent capstan, so I would imagine that it follows their previous design practice. However a quick e-mail to them should clear up the uncertainty!

Cheers,

Jim

Matt sachs · 21-01-2015, 14:59

Ok, 2 years later I did it. I bought a maxwell RC12/10 12v. Better late than never. With this, and another weeks work, the forward 15 feet of the boat is ready to splash. Its the other 35 feet thats hold me up....

Nicholson58 · 21-01-2015, 19:52

Here is another possible layout I have seen. It has a lot of merit. Windlass is mounted near the mast. A chain box is built that stores the chain directly below. The box can have a drain sump & pump. The chain mass is low to the keel and central to the vessel. The chain never fouls the wildcat from below. This is all stuff on the good list. Variations on this bring the chain in below the bow stem fitting and the windlass is below deck.

Unfortunately, ours is in the usual location. The Maxwell H-3000 is below deck in a bow locker with drains overboard & a washdown hose. The chain locker below is too small & drains to the bilge.