Why is everything on a boat so expensive?

[Cap Erict3]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

This is affectionatly known as...Boat Yoga

An often overlooked aspect of boat shopping. Less overlooked by those of us having had to bleed and use mirrors while doing yacht work in our youth.


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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[Clamdigger]

Originally Posted by EveningTide

Derfy- You are correct in your thinking. I just knew I didn't have a lot of years to learn everything. Now I know there are boat yards that can restore an old boat to almost new condition for a lot less than a new boat. Undoubtedly I will take my losses when it comes time to sell. Maybe that time will be in the far future. Maybe I wil die while out sailing and won't have to worry about it. Maybe I will give the boat to some young fellow who knows that Dana's are meant to be sailed (not tied to a dock and looking pretty).

I certainly know how to sail, and would rather be out sailing on the open ocean than most anywhere else. I also have desired a Dana 24 since it came out, but alas, it was always out of my reach financially. To me it's the Hinckley of small boats under 30ft. That compliment alone tells you I'm from new England, and have plenty of Sea Miles under my keel.

So please contact me directly by PM when you decide to place her under a new Captain. I'd certainly aim to circumnavigate in her!

[derfy]

Originally Posted by EveningTide

Derfy- You are correct in your thinking. I just knew I didn't have a lot of years to learn everything. Now I know there are boat yards that can restore an old boat to almost new condition for a lot less than a new boat. Undoubtedly I will take my losses when it comes time to sell. Maybe that time will be in the far future. Maybe I wil die while out sailing and won't have to worry about it. Maybe I will give the boat to some young fellow who knows that Dana's are meant to be sailed (not tied to a dock and looking pretty).

Well, Pacific Seacraft is a great brand. That will help come time to sell. Some brands and models really hold value over time. Other plummet.

My problem is that I don't like the new boats.

I am looking at 70s and 80s vintage boats that have been refitted. I dig molded keels and skeg-hung rudders. It is tough finding one that won't be a boatload of problems, though. It really is.

I look at the $$$ per cruising day. Boat work days don't count. Realistically, it can be many 100's of dollars per day to own and maintain a well-found cruising yacht.

Makes me just want to go charter and drop off the keys when I am done.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Life is expensive. Prioritize.

Life is short....Prioritize!

[Sailorbob8599]

Regarding Halyards and Sheets; Do try an Industrial Rigging Shop. They sell not only s.s.cable, thimbles, and other rigging, they also sell many types and sizes of synthetic Brand Name lines used on a sailboat at a much lower price than marine stores.
When it comes to pricing of hardware for a sailboat, remember the convenience factor. Think of the amount of stock a chandler must put on his shelves waiting for you to need a particular part, and how annoyed many folk become when some odd piece of equipment is not available the minute they walk into the store. Stock sitting on the shelf is money (capital) tied up.
I am by no means a rich person, but I do try to patronize my local marine store as much as possible, simply because I appreciate what he offers in the way of service and convenience otherwise, my next option is to drive 50 kms. to the next closest marine store.
When building my boat in my front driveway, I struck a deal with another marine store near my home for a trade discount providing I purchased as much as possible from him. I still priced around and discussed any major price differences, and quite often we came to an agreement we could both live with. If he could not compete, he accepted i would buy from another source.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

Regarding Halyards and Sheets; Do try an Industrial Rigging Shop. They sell not only s.s.cable, thimbles, and other rigging, they also sell many types and sizes of synthetic Brand Name lines used on a sailboat at a much lower price than marine stores.
When it comes to pricing of hardware for a sailboat, remember the convenience factor. Think of the amount of stock a chandler must put on his shelves waiting for you to need a particular part, and how annoyed many folk become when some odd piece of equipment is not available the minute they walk into the store. Stock sitting on the shelf is money (capital) tied up.

If you buy a used boat though, you can sometimes reuse the halyards and sheets already on the boat.

I still have the halyards that were on the boat when I found it. It had been sitting on the hard for 5 years at that time.

Even though they looked unbelievably old and were covered with dirt, I allowed them to soak in the bath tub over night in soap and the next day after a normal wash they were as good as new. They are still on the boat now so that is about 10 years of use that I know of. Some old salts (total characters, and owners of ancient full keel boats) told me of this method many years ago but I didn't try it until I bought my first monohull. While racing beach catamarans, I always bought new when I didn't need to......

The 600' plus of anchor rode though was like new as it was stored below decks. Some old boats are loaded with extra supplies! I spent several weekends cleaning all the junk out of my boat after I bought it. It had been fully loaded for a 2 year cruise. Hidden among the junk was some very useable equipment

Just a small thing but purchasing sheets, halyards, anchor rode, etc adds up quickly when you think of the length they have to be plus price per foot

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by cgilley

So I'm a lurker on here. Someday, I'll try a fresh water cruiser for the experience, but I really want to get near the ocean. That said, why is everything so expensive to refit on a boat? I've seen estimates in the threads to spend 10s of thousands of dollars rebuilding engines... small diesel engines. What gives?

I readily admit to being ignorant, and if some other ignorant person has asked this question, please direct me to the post.

Thanks

Much of cost comes form shopping at We$t Marine

Shopping for Titanium for new chain plates varied from 200 to 600 per plate. 200 at a metals supplier; 600 from someone who knew it was for a boat. The internet is your friend.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by farm sail

so in your example for reduced production a normally $2 part will cost $10 so then why does a $300 water pump not make sense. not many $60 waterpumps to be found for new cars. also you are looking at production cost we dont buy from the manufacturers. by the tim ed the part goes from the manufacturer to z distributor to you the price just goes up. they all need to make a profit including the shippong companies


if you really think it can be done cheaper, go for it start a company build good products sell them for much less and you will have plenty of buyers. feel free to start with a replacement injector pump for my md6b

Yeah, there's a lot of devil in the detail for sure. Then there are accounting philosophies and pricing philosophies too.
Interestingly though, in '99 my boat had a Nanni diesel, pretty much a Mercedes 240D engine. A new waterpump I bought as a spare from the Annapolis Mercedes dealer was about $25! A complete engine gasket set was about $90

[cgilley]

more of a curiosity question.

[cgilley]

Guys - this thread has become a treasure-trove of wisdom. So, salute to all of you.

My original question was more based on general curiosity of what I've read on this forum and elsewhere. Especially when there is a thread about buying xyz boat and "refitting" it. The subject of budgets and estimates in the 10s of thousands, etc. The comments about that resonated the most with me (driving cost):

1. Just about every boat is custom;
2. Some people want to live the same way on their boat as they do in their house. That's going to cost.

The other thing I pulled from this thread is that life is full of trade-offs. Shoot, I should know that - got 11 kids and now the grand kids are starting to show up .


I think what I'm going to do is join a local time sharing club (I live near a large lake). This will let me sail all year. Now I just need to track down that little sloop I've never seen leave the dock.

[Stu Jackson]

An active Owners Association is very helpful in tracking down equivalent parts, good pricing and finding ways of doing things without reinventing the wheel.

Good access on a boat is worth every penny. If you buy a boat without good access, who do you have to blame? The builder or the buyer?

Three things to check (actually four)

Like any boat, check it out, but here are things I suggest to everyone:

1. Dipstick access. If it's a pain to do, you won't, nor would the PO. Is it easy to get to or do you have to tear the cushions out?

2. What engine? Are spare parts reasonably available? Yanmar parts are hard to get (worse in Canada). And very expensive. Not a deal killer, but... Universal engines are Kubotas so tractor stores have the parts. Yanmar are reputed to be available world-wide, Kubota not so much, but they're both tractor engines on boats in the 30-38 foot range. PS – There is a Kubota tractor dealer just outside Duncan, BC on the Island, right on Hwy 1. Great folks (July 2015).

3. Sleeping - try out the berths. Really. Our boat has what I have found to be THE largest V berth of any boat in its size class, even larger boats. Try out the berths. Try out the berths...

4. A thorough, complete, searchable and supportive boat owners website. For example, our C34 and C36 are very, very good. Many of the systems are also applicable to the C30, which has had too many and various websites available over the years.

Courtesy Boatman61 on cruisersforum:

Make up a list of boats that are up for sale near you that are accessible to viewing externally.. tromp the pontoons and check out the exteriors.. salty enough.. or trendy enough.. the way the exterior is maintained tells a hell of a lot.. not so much the gleaming S/S.. more the general appearance.. sloppy lines, mildewed running rigging.. the way the sails are stowed.. can tell one a lot before you even look below.. don't like it.. Scratch it..
A coupla w/ends of this you'll have a short list..
Call the brokers or owners and set up 2 viewings a day for when it suits you and then go for it.. – limit the viewings and take cameras & lotsa photos.
Get on Board.. the more knowledgeable checks out the top while the other heads below.. now some boats.. I don't know why.. but as soon as you reach the bottom of the steps its: “No Way.”
Not because its a mess.. just a kinda antipathy.. don't strike any others of the same model off the list.. unless it happens again. Its weird..
Anyway.. when you've both finished nosing around.. ask the broker or owner for some time alone together one the boat.. no excited patter/chatter or this good.. that bad..
Thats for later.. this is bonding time.. sit back.. maybe lay on the bunks.. and open up.. you'll know what I mean when it happens.. that little smile with eyes closed on both your faces means.. You've found THE Boat..
And you'll go home and start scheming how to get it yesterday...

[Rustic Charm]

I don't buy the 'custom' excuse at all. My boat is 30 + years old and yet it has the same items on it just about every other newer vessel has. Most things in marine shops seem to be mass produced.

In many places anything for a boat draws luxury tax. That increases the prices.

Secondary there is the luxury myth which sees people selling items selling them for more because if people own a boat they can pay more. An example of this is that you can purchase the exact same ropes for sail boats from a non marine rigging shop for about $1 a meter less than a boat shop. Same brand, same thickness, same color. A really good example of this is the pant product called 'penatrol'. If you purchase Penetrol from a boat shop with the pretty blue boat on the container and it's called 'Marine Penetrol' you will pay almost twice as much as buying non 'marine' Penetrol in a hardware shop. And yet, it's exactly the same product. Exactly the same!

And labor. As I've just discovered this year. My local boiler maker charges $66 an hour working from the chanderly. A domestic or engineering firm boiler maker is at least $120 an hour. And yet the engineering boiler maker is cheaper at least by half. Same with a local mast rigger who seems to charge the earth.

Some one said flying planes is much more expensive. Well, absolutely it is if you own a plane. But renting a plane as most pilots do I'd far cheaper than owning a boat.

But, I still think owning a boat might be cheaper than owning a horse and riding it frequently in competitions.

[Stumble]

In large part it depends on what you are talking about. From a manufacturer's standpoint a good supplier will use corrosion resistant materials, isolate dissimilar metals, upgraded wiring, even pot electrical switches when redesigning for the marine market. Add all of this up and a good builder really does supply a different product.

For a retail store price is a function of time on the shelf and cost. The longer a part is going to be on the shelf the more you have to charge for it.

For labor, marine workers tend to make more because of the working conditions, but a large cost is that marine service providers generally have to buy Jones Act or Longshore insurance not workers comp. This can be extremely expensive. In most cases it can drive up the cost of labor by $20/hr or more just for the insurance, not to mention all the additional training required to certify employees to work in the marine world.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Stumble

In large part it depends on what you are talking about. From a manufacturer's standpoint a good supplier will use corrosion resistant materials, isolate dissimilar metals, upgraded wiring, even pot electrical switches when redesigning for the marine market. Add all of this up and a good builder really does supply a different product.

For a retail store price is a function of time on the shelf and cost. The longer a part is going to be on the shelf the more you have to charge for it.

For labor, marine workers tend to make more because of the working conditions, but a large cost is that marine service providers generally have to buy Jones Act or Longshore insurance not workers comp. This can be extremely expensive. In most cases it can drive up the cost of labor by $20/hr or more just for the insurance, not to mention all the additional training required to certify employees to work in the marine world.

I presume your talking about an American context are you? This is a multi national forum

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Lionelsole

If you think that sailing is expensive, try aviation. Multiplying by ten is just a starting point.

I know you are correct on this. My office mate of many years restored two Ercoupes. We found the bearing in the landing gear is the identical SKF sealed bearing we buy by the dozens for machines we build. I can assure you that the only difference is the mark the Rabi places on it to make it Kosher - the 20X price increase. If you want to really screw stuff up, let the government run it.