Why use bottom paint when you can scrape?

[leandroflaherty]

It can be done. I am also in the less crap in the ocean camp, copper is not good regardless what anyone tells you.


I installed a 12v hooka dive system I got off ebay for the price of a hawl out.



I dive about twice a year, usually before a big trip. With a wet suit, a suction handhold, and a nice wide stainless scraper on a 5 foot pole I can do the whole bottom in about an hour.


Its a pleasure doing it in the bahamas, not so much in the north east, but I do it in the peak of summer with warm water and close to an inlet with a rising tide for clear water.


Try it. Worst case you hawl out.

[Kd9truck]

CopperCoat is something I have had my eye on for years, the Ablative paints contaminate far more than a hard copperloaded paint that can be scraped. There are many well intentioned mis-conceptions about anti-fouling.
I put 2 coats (2 seperate colors) red under and navy top coat of semi-hard ablative Interlux micron extra, I kept my vessel “wet” for 3 years. I scraped the hull with a 18 inch neoprene edged squeegee, I found I needed to do it every 3 weeks, any longer and you will be covered in sea life trying to take hold on you as you become the new temporary home. Interlux has discontinued this paint I am actively looking for a comparable alternative.
So if you want to clean by “scraping”, you will need to do frequently, and I would offer using a tool https://remoramarine.com/remora-solo/ I can clean slime off a 44ft x 14 ft vessel in 45 min. Using 100p psi.this is When using squeegee, using this tool it will be more complete and faster.
A nod to fstbttms as he has had a major roll in the development of this product

Another route is to have your hull blasted and re apoxyed and put a hard paint on, then you can clean your vessel regularly and not need to repaint as frequently, or so I am told.

[bensolomon]

Originally Posted by Josephcrawl

When we bought our last boat it had been sitting neglected at a dock for twelve years. The bottom growth was really not all that bad. Tons and tons of barnies and an oyster on top of the rudder but a pole and scraper tool care of most of it in about an hour. This was down around Annapolis.

I suppose, then, you could try a season or two scraping and see how it goes. It's not an irreversible decision on either side of the discussion.

[Kd9truck]

Copper is a common element found in nature, in rocks, in soil in water.

Where Copper is Found on Earth. Half of all the world's copper is found in four localized regions: South America, South Central Asia, Indochina, and North America. The rest is spread throughout the world. Copper has been found on almost every continent.

Copper deposits occur in sedimentary and volcanogenic rocks within a wide variety of geologic environments where there may be little or no evidence of hydrothermal alteration.

That was taken from goggle.

Not sure how if it is found in nature, in environments, how it is bad for environments, but their are much smarter well funded people with copper axes to grind.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Allied39

Blah, copper. nasty? Nothing nasty about copper.
The solution to pollution is dilution.

That is not a solution, but it is an excuse. Copper is harmful if concentrated. If it were not harmful to marine life, it would not be an effective antifouling. Copper found in nature is in completely different form from the copper in paint. It is also a vital resource that is in short supply. should not be wasted. There isn't enough as it is. copper mines are very harmful to the environment and the use of copper should be carefully considered.

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Not sure how if it is found in nature, in environments, how it is bad for environments, but their are much smarter well funded people with copper axes to grind.

To be clear: everything on earth is "found in nature" so according to this argument, you probably don't think _anything_ can be bad for the environment.

I went years without painting. I just dive over and wipe the bottom every week and prevent growth from getting started. Takes less than 20 minutes. I did this all over the world in tropical places as well as in cold water like new zealand and maine. It helps to have a wetsuit there.

The other posters are giving false information sadly. Most likely they have no experience with this method which is also much more environmentally friendly and obviously cheaper despite their false claims.

A lot of people like to justify the way they do things whatever that is and that is the actual reason for such posts. It takes months to create what those pictures show. If you keep on top of it, you can just use a rag but wait too long and barnacles will form which are much more difficult to remove.

Another option may be to use ultrasonic.. I have no experience but I am told it prevents hard growth while doing almost nothing to weeds.

Finally, you could also careen every few weeks and clean the bottom without having to dive.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Allied39

Blah, copper. nasty? Nothing nasty about copper.
The solution to pollution is dilution. Besides think of all the money that doesn't get spent on bottom paint and labour.....cant have that.

Besides, scraping hulls is fun right, especially in winter.

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

That is not a solution, but it is an excuse. Copper is harmful if concentrated. If it were not harmful to marine life, it would not be an effective antifouling. Copper found in nature is in completely different form from the copper in paint. It is also a vital resource that is in short supply. should not be wasted. There isn't enough as it is. copper mines are very harmful to the environment and the use of copper should be carefully considered.


To be clear: everything on earth is "found in nature" so according to this argument, you probably don't think _anything_ can be bad for the environment.

I went years without painting. I just dive over and wipe the bottom every week and prevent growth from getting started. Takes less than 20 minutes. I did this all over the world in tropical places as well as in cold water like new zealand and maine. It helps to have a wetsuit there.

The other posters are giving false information sadly. Most likely they have no experience with this method which is also much more environmentally friendly and obviously cheaper despite their false claims.

A lot of people like to justify the way they do things whatever that is and that is the actual reason for such posts. It takes months to create what those pictures show. If you keep on top of it, you can just use a rag but wait too long and barnacles will form which are much more difficult to remove.

Another option may be to use ultrasonic.. I have no experience but I am told it prevents hard growth while doing almost nothing to weeds.

Finally, you could also careen every few weeks and clean the bottom without having to dive.

Mate, you really don't get sarcasm do you.

[Dooglas]

Well, let's review. Saltwater vessels have been using copper plating, copper paints, and other anti-fouling formulations for hundreds of years. You've decided that you know more than they and the rest of us do. Good luck!

[sepharad]

First off I am just plain ignorant. So if what I mention is way off, please educate me, not abuse me.


I was in Denmark to transport my boat. The paint on my hull looks something like a red pizza. Smooth and glossy it is not. It looks like an old whore who has slathered on makeup for the last 10 years, without a wipe-down in between. This is to my shame.


While wandering the yard, I watched 2 men paint their hulls with an amazing looking product called VC-17m by Interlux.


They both had clearly begun from a squeaky clean hull and were laying down a paper thin coating...then they quit!. I mean thin and glassy smooth.


I was told "you don't need that, you don't have a racing boat".


What caught my attention was, other than a light wash down after a season in the water, with a scrubby pad, that was all the prep. One fellow told me you should be able to go 20 years between scraping down. That only the thinnest coating was necessary, but you had to start with a clean hull and continue to use only that product.


The gut wrenching notion of stripping my layer-cake down to a smooth base, is not inviting, but the notion of truly minimalistic maintenance caught my attention.


Why is something like this product more prevalent as a maintenance reduction program?

[ms.lau]

Why use a washing machine when you can scrub? Why use a car when you can walk? Etc.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Allied39

... Besides, scraping hulls is fun right, especially in winter.

Or the summer/fall jellyfish season.

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

That is not a solution, but it is an excuse. Copper is harmful if concentrated. If it were not harmful to marine life, it would not be an effective antifouling. Copper found in nature is in completely different form from the copper in paint. It is also a vital resource that is in short supply. should not be wasted. There isn't enough as it is. copper mines are very harmful to the environment and the use of copper should be carefully considered.


To be clear: everything on earth is "found in nature" so according to this argument, you probably don't think _anything_ can be bad for the environment.

I went years without painting. I just dive over and wipe the bottom every week and prevent growth from getting started. Takes less than 20 minutes. I did this all over the world in tropical places as well as in cold water like new zealand and maine. It helps to have a wetsuit there.

The other posters are giving false information sadly. Most likely they have no experience with this method which is also much more environmentally friendly and obviously cheaper despite their false claims.

A lot of people like to justify the way they do things whatever that is and that is the actual reason for such posts. It takes months to create what those pictures show. If you keep on top of it, you can just use a rag but wait too long and barnacles will form which are much more difficult to remove.

Another option may be to use ultrasonic.. I have no experience but I am told it prevents hard growth while doing almost nothing to weeds.

Finally, you could also careen every few weeks and clean the bottom without having to dive.

I did not say it was not harmful, and I do not think that, there are a great many toxins found in nature that are harmful to a great many things, some how life finds a way to adapt, that’s not just an excuse to pollute or Poison. Every inch of our vessels are riddled with toxins in the finished product and in the resourcing of the raw material to make them. Even the wood used. The technology we are using because of its scale is one of the greatest perpetrators.


The observations and the laws created are steeped in hypocrisy.
Cheers

[BillyOram]

What do you mean by a “wipe”? - cloth, scraper but lightly, squeegee?

[boat driver]

Claiborne-
Look around your location at the pilings and various structures.
I that is satisfactory then you are fine. Chances are that the performance will be severely diminished- costing you enjoyment./
Not enough information on your experience and time living in Claiborne, but
If you believe you can leave a vessel in Claiborne neglected on a mooring for ten months-and you ask a question like bottom paint- you may discover the local birds and neighbors may object.
That will follow with a visit from the state DNR, thereby costing even more.
There are a number of non-copper paints that work that area.
also- copper is not necessarily bad in itself- it is a problem when the paint is scraped in the water releasing high concentrations in a short timeframe.
.

[GoodShipLolipop]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

[Copper] is also a vital resource that is in short supply. should not be wasted. There isn't enough as it is. copper mines are very harmful to the environment and the use of copper should be carefully considered.

Fun fact, something like 80% of the copper that has ever been mined by humans is still in use today. It just keeps getting recycled over and over again. From the bronze age to today, people just can't get enough copper.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

... Finally, you could also careen every few weeks and clean the bottom without having to dive.

Not in the MD Chesapeake Bay. The tide in only about 1-foot and the bottom is very soft mud. If you dry out most places, the waterline only falls 1-2 inches.


In the summer the jelly fish will be stinging, so that means full clothing, including a hood. Besides, if you don't wear a hood you get hordes of krill in your hair and ears.



When the barnacles are in full swing, weekly scrubs are not enough. And you are working blind (I have scrubbed in the Bay). Doable, but not worth doing weekly.



---


You need to comment based on the actual area. Re. Copper, you should read the most resent opinions from Washington State. At low release rates there seems to be declining evidence of harm from boats. Yes, in concentration it is a problem, but at some dilution it is just nature. Defining the transition is difficult.