Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

[GordMay]

Here’s a good comparison between LiFePO4 [Lithium Iron Phosphate] and lithium-ion, including lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO2), lithium manganese oxide (LiMn2O4), and lithium nickel cobalt manganese oxide (NMC) batteries:
➥ https://dakotalithium.com/faqs/lifep...SAAEgKjG_D_BwE

[Wandering1]

There are lots of issue with sodium batteries that will ensure they don't make it into mainstream lead replacement like lifepo4 has done. A '12v' sodium battery rated at 100Ah would have an upper voltage of close to 16v and a low end voltage of about 6v. How do you think those voltages would work with existing 12v electronics on your boat? To only use the useable part of the capacity where the voltage is between 14.5v and 12v ( a range that most motors and electronics are happy with) would derate the 100Ah sodium battery by half. The sodium battery is already less energy dense than lifepo4 and as a result of its chemistry, it needs derating again to keep within acceptable voltage parameters for use on a boat.
This is not such an issue if you are designing a car around a certain battery chemistry but it doesn't work well if you are retrofitting into a boat

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

Sodium ion batteries have zero momentum at this point.
It is completely irelevant for use in boats in the near future (3-5 years).

OK I'll take the bait!

This Chinese Sodium Battery Changes the EV Industry FOREVER in 2024!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zipgIiYi67M

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by coopec43

OK I'll take the bait!

This Chinese Sodium Battery Changes the EV Industry FOREVER in 2024!

A link to one of the thousands of hyperbole YT channels that uses stock footage and reads press releases out loud, while they are being mind blown and game changed?

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

A link to one of the thousands of hyperbole YT channels that uses stock footage and reads press releases out loud, while they are being mind blown and game changed?

Would you prefer this?

Why China Could Dominate the Next Big Advance in Batteries

China is far ahead of the rest of the world in the development of batteries that use sodium, which are starting to compete with ubiquitous lithium power cells. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/12/b...batteries.html

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Would you prefer this?

Why China Could Dominate the Next Big Advance in Batteries

China is far ahead of the rest of the world in the development of batteries that use sodium, which are starting to compete with ubiquitous lithium power cells. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/12/b...batteries.html

No - but I am looking forward to see your sodium installation on your boat.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

No - but I am looking forward to see your sodium installation on your boat.

Yep, good luck with that one😁

[leecea]

Surely we can all accept that battery designs will keep evolving.

If you want boat batteries now, you can choose from what is available now. If you want to wait and see if something you like better comes along, then wait.

Side Note: I would love to have tool batteries and USB power banks that were Lithium Iron Phosphate but haven't had any success finding them

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by leecea

Surely we can all accept that battery designs will keep evolving.

If you want boat batteries now, you can choose from what is available now. If you want to wait and see if something you like better comes along, then wait.

Side Note: I would love to have tool batteries and USB power banks that were Lithium Iron Phosphate but haven't had any success finding them

Maybe this is the reason they don't make them for tools?

What are the disadvantages of LiFePO4 batteries?

Limited energy density, higher cost, slower charging speed, lower discharge rate, and limited temperature range are some of the drawbacks of using LiFePO4 batteries.25 Sept 2023

I am surprised there is an 18650 Sodium ion battery on the market right now. (Workshop tools use strings of 18650 batteries to get 18V)

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by leecea

Surely we can all accept that battery designs will keep evolving.

If you want boat batteries now, you can choose from what is available now. If you want to wait and see if something you like better comes along, then wait.

Side Note: I would love to have tool batteries and USB power banks that were Lithium Iron Phosphate but haven't had any success finding them

Yes of course.

There are always the Luddites on these threads who don't believe in technical advancement!. We can be certain anything to do with power generation/storage will change dramatically in the next ten(?) years.

[coopec43]

If you are interested in new developments in solar cells use the following link

https://www.csiro.au/en/news/all/articles/2023/september/solar-panel-technology

[coopec43]

Well if they can get that working it would certainly be a game changer.

I wonder if the battery was in a yacht would the battery accept the full charge from the alternator until it was charged?


https://www.livescience.com/technolo...n-battery-tech

[GordMay]

A Staggering 19x Energy Jump in Capacitors May Be the Beginning of the End for Batteries” ~ by Tim Newcomb, Popular Mechanics
Researchers believe they’ve discovered a new material structure that can improve the energy storage [19-fold] of capacitors.
The structure allows for storage while improving the efficiency of ultrafast charging and discharging.
The new find needs optimization but has the potential to help power electric vehicles.
More about ➥ https://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...source=twitter

or ➥ https://twitter.com/PopMech/status/1788599908280222045

"Novel material supercharges innovation in electrostatic energy storage" ~ by Washington University in St. Louis
Sang-Hoon Bae developed heterostructures with material properties optimal for high-density energy storage, durable ultrafast charging
➥ https://www.newswise.com/articles/vi...hr&xy=10053224

[1] “High energy density in artificial heterostructures through relaxation time modulation” ~ by Frances M. Ross, & Sang-Hoon Bae et al
➥ https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adl2835

Originally Posted by Brent Grocholski

“Editor’s summary:
Avoiding waste heat during capacitor operation is important for improving energy efficiency. Han et al. designed a dielectric heterostructure with barium titanate sandwiched between a two-dimensional material. Charge accumulation at the material interfaces under an alternating electric field changes the relaxation time of the heterostructure. This, in turn, can substantially reduce the energy loss when the right materials are chosen. The authors produced one such structure with high energy density and low loss using two-layer molybdenum disulfide and barium titanate. The general strategy should be useful for refining other dielectric materials. —Brent Grocholski
...”

[coopec43]

Will your next battery be based on salt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43g2RLLWxCw

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

Sodium ion batteries have zero momentum at this point.
It is completely irelevant for use in boats in the near future (3-5 years).

Indeed.

Nothing wrong with speculating about future tech, but back to the real world, LiFePo is here now and can be bought and installed today. Has become much cheaper than lead on a per cycle life basis and is hardly more expensive than AGM lead batteries. Is as safe as lead batteries.

The only drawback is a boat designed for lead batteries will need some reconfiguration of the electrical system.

When my current set of golf cart batteries dies (not too soon, I hope), I will switch to LiFePo, and sodium technology will be irrelevant to me, because these batteries will outlive me.